Dillsburg PPR Show Videos

[Abejita]

Well I finally got someone with broadband to upload these for me ..so I hope this works..Sorry for the size The Bella Forma one is especially LONG

Pleasure Stallions
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/th_PRPleasureStalGeld.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/?action=view&current=PRPleasureStalGeld.flv)

Colts Geldings up to 48 months
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/th_PRPLColts.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/?action=view&current=PRPLColts.flv)

Fino Mares
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/th_PRFinoMares.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/?action=view&current=PRFinoMares.flv)

Bella Forma Open
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/th_PRBellaForma.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/?action=view&current=PRBellaForma.flv)

Pleasure Mares 48 months and over
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/th_PPRPLMares.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h62/Pasodreams/?action=view&current=PPRPLMares.flv)

[Abejita]

Oh yeah..This show took place last weekend. 9/30 ans 10/1 I do not know who is who but the woman on the very pretty Palomino does post on Charlie's board and she has the stallion's name there..PPR Forum

and please ley me know if they work !

[Candice Burger]

"Heart of Gold" is her log-in name.

[Candice Burger]

There's another show October 12 in SC--I forget the location. Can't go to that one either. :cry: :mad:

[Abejita]

Well Candice ..I hope these little videos help ease the pain a little ..

[Abejita]

do you get the big blue pic saying what the class is? and when you scroll over it you dont get the little 'hand' The pic is the link..hmm try right click and properties...

[pprpaso3]

HI JOy,

I had some trouble getting the videos to come in too but you have to download Adobe flash to view them. I am on dialup and it took me a while to figure it out but I had to download the Adobe and then restart my computer....I finally got it.

I'm glad Sheri took video....Gay did get some of that class of Frosty and I but she missed most of it. This was Frosty's first time showing under saddle......you know I am a novice also and this was the first time we did figure 8's !

We were in the PR Fino Stallion class and the Chmpionship classes for the PLeasure and Fino stallions. Frosty also took a first in that PR Bella Forma class(long video).

I guess the response to the PR horses was very good and we are invited back again to Dillsburg with our own seperate classes again! We were also invited to a show in June in Virginia.

Hey hope you can join us and bring Rico! We should have a bigger turnout next year.........

Debbie

ps I am ordering stills from the photographer...when I get them I will post them.......Frosty is very chocolately and so pretty!

[Pasogirlz]

Welcome to the bb pprpaso! 8-) Glad you could join us.

[pprpaso3]

Thanks pasogirlz...happy to be here! :lol:

[PasoJoy]

Rats, I can't see the links to the videos, I would love to see my friend Deb with her chocolate palomino stallion!!

[Brigitte]

Great videos...Pinto Fino mare..didn't expect that

[Terry Wallace]

None of the mares in the "Fino Mares" was Fino...is that one miss-titled?
They all looked like pleasure mares....

[roadrunner]

The PPR fino horses in the SC PPR show look like these. Perhaps Candice can explain the difference between PPR fino and PFHA fino for all of us.

[Abejita]

a lady at the show explained that in PR fino is not like PFHA fino..that it has to do with consistancy of gait.So no it isnt mislabled...

[Terry Wallace]

PR Fino is "not like" PFHA Fino? Then it is not like Colombian Fino either...I mean...those mares have way too much forward movement and too much speed...sorry, but that is like no other fino class I have seen before...


There are no fino mares in that class...just pleasure mares "walking"... some are at a slow corto... ;-)

Yep, I guess they better not enter PFHA Fino class or they will surely "get the gate"..... :lol:

[SandyMM]

sorry, but that is like no other fino class I have seen before
As in all show classes from every association, there will be better and not not so good representations of the required gait - that's why it's a judged class. And just like other shows, people will mis-enter just to have more ring time - and because they enjoy showing off their horse. One thing the PPR 'fino' gait isn't is 'just like the Colombian 'fino' which appears to be today's model for the PFHA 'fino'...... thank goodness. I've seen enough hopping, skipping, jouncing, shuffling, and trocha from horses being forced to do what should be a graceful, elegant. and controlled - albeit powerful - gait.

I congratulate all PPR breeders for their attempt to maintain and promote what I consider one of the purest remaining Paso Fino strains.

[Cindy]

Those videos gave me flashbacks. :D

[dcancel]

Can I ask why some of the horses in the Bellas Formas class were shown with just one person leading the horse, there should be two people with two leads behind the horse.

By the way thanks for taking video and posting them for us that couldn't make it. Did anyone take any still pics of the mares.

Does anyone know the names of all those mares and their pedigrees
I hope I can participate next year.
Denisse

[Terry Wallace]

there will be better and not not so good representations of the required gait

I'll go with "not so good representation"...

I guess then any horse who can walk that is PPR is "fino"?
I mean c'mon... that must make my mare FINO!

I'm not behind any board slammers, trocha finos, hopping, skipping or shuffling... but rather a "soft shoe" performance, collected, very little forward movement.... I just didn't see any in that class...JMO ;-)

[Rafael Arbelo]

I agree with you Terry ... up to certain point ... 8-) The PPRPF is NOT like the Colombian Fino that's for sure ... What we have to do to understand what the PPRPF is all about is; we have to learn the basic characteristics of the Fino in Puerto Rico as were taught by our ancestors and not by the Colombians horses when they arrived to PR in the mid to late 70’s ... Remember the PPRPF horses were in Puerto Rico first ;-)

I am not going to discuss the many differences between the two breeds (PR – Col) but I am going to share some things that make the PPRPF unique:
1st is gait … a distinct evenly 4 beat lateral tempo that the animal is born with it … (I have a five month filly and at one day old she was chasing her momma in gait!!! ) … nobody taught her that …it’s natural …
2nd is smoothness … I have always said that the Paso Fino breed should be called Paso Suave instead. See the term “Fino” has several meanings in Spanish; it could be use to mean Fine, Exquisite, Thin, Delicate, etc. … But the term Suave means Smooth and Delicate and that’s a big characteristic a PPRPF brings from factory … No hard pounding on the ground, it is like gliding on the ground …
3rd Speed: The PPRPF is described to be somewhat fast, (naturally some are faster than others), but you have to understand that the faster a horse goes it becomes less smooth … that’s not Col nor PR, that’s a law of physics … The faster you hit and object the more energy you have to put into it, loosing the ability to be smooth … Think about it …

Again Terry is somewhat right; yes there are no Fino mares in that class from the premise of what we “know” about Fino in the USA … but there are a lot of smooth mares in that class with way too much forward movement (but even in PR they would not place well)
My main concern with all those mares and horses presented at the show would be training. I saw very good horses in the PPRPF show in SC, but very poor trained …

Coincidentally we are preparing an article discussing this very subject (The characteristics of the PPRPF Horse) that should appeared in the next issue of our magazine ... Don't miss it!

I am also in the process of completing the DVD editing of the Festival of Champions in Ponce (PPRPF) and I will post some of the Fino Colts Class … that is FINO!

[Terry Wallace]

Rafael... I own and have owned PPR Pasos... believe me, I know what a good fino horse is...and I'm not talking Colombian blood exclusively...

Just let me have my opinion please... I see NO fino mares in the fino mares class...period

Again Terry is somewhat right; yes there are no Fino mares in that class

Please do not assume I don't know what a fino horse is...

Thank You....

[Abejita]

Can I ask why some of the horses in the Bellas Formas class were shown with just one person leading the horse, there should be two people with two leads behind the horse

I do not know PPR Federation Show rules..If this is a rule in the PPR Federation (I know in PFHA you can show one line) they may have let it slide due to the lack of handlers?

[Rafael Arbelo]

Terry,

Sorry for the misunderstanding but I also said "I agree with you up to certain point ..." ... by that I don't mean you don't know about PPRPF ... In fact I think you are very versed in that subject ...

However in a healthy and open discussion I can disagree with anybody and learn from anybody no matter the level of expertise ...

[Terry Wallace]

No problem Rafael..... no problem at all....

I once had a fino stallion just as you describe....smooth, delicate..."soft shoe" is what I call that..he would stand right in the crossties and fino away to his hearts content.... he never slammed, hooped, skipped or trochad....

He was poetry in motion... you could barely hear the footfall...

[Candice Burger]

Well, well, I was trying to be a good girl, but Terry--you bad and I think right!

I'm going to try to explain this and I'll need some help with this attempt.

Differences between two strains, yes they exist, but do they "count" when talking about the correct expressions of fino gait? Not enough for me to say it's significant. When does it become significant? When the fundamental expression is very correct and it is the nuances of expression that determines the ride. Is one more correct than the other? NO! Here, what wins is what is the most "important" to the examiner because the horse MUST sacrifice some expression of one trait in order for the other trait to be expressed more perfectly. As Rafael demonstrated, speed is sacrificed when percision is required or vice versa and this is relative within a horse and when compared to his peers. Many paso traits have this type of relationship. If the horse is "quiet", his footfall is softer, his croup motionless, his leg movement lower, his stride deliberate. He sacrifices various movements to appear very still when he moves.

So when talking about differences we are talking in a relative surreal way. That is why I can't say one way is better than another. I can only say they are different and the horse is that is better to me (if all expressions are near equal) is the one that appeals to me most.

Now, let's talk about what the PPR has to offer based on centuaries of selection. When I was in PR the saying went "it only matters from the knees down". What was desired was a very deliberate, delicate and precise movement so that the rider literally felt nothing. Not a bump of ANY kind from the horses' movements. The way the PR does this is to sacrifice allot of piston-type movment and it's lower. It was more of a "roll" to the joints that absorbs allot energy. It's subtle but it's there.

Allot of the joint action is in the fetlock as a result. Since there's less engagement in the shoulder and stifle, the fetlock does allot of work. As a result, the PPR horse MUST pick his feet cleanly off the surface and it must have a very clear flight. A "good" PPR horse--you can stand behind and see every frog of every foot. If you cannot, it's a fault. And because of this the dirt is flung backwards behind the foot in the beginning of it's flight. When the foot lands, it tends to land without much force or forward movement in the landing, so very little dirt in front of the foot shifts. There will be some, but it should not be very discernable.

The horse balances his weight and energy into the next foot movement and transfers only minimal energy with surface contact. So, the big emphasis on cadence and rhythm. A horse that is a little out of gait cannot give a smooth ride. Because of this transference from foot to foot and NOT to the ground, you can imagine the advantages of using as little movement (up/down movement) as possible to prevent building up this energy that could be concussive if released. This energy must go somewhere so striding might be longer and absorbed in this little roll in joints above the knee or hock.

Now there's plenty of PPR horses with high animation that are very expressive and plenty with piston-type movements. There are plenty that aren't quite perfectly in gait and plenty that are very quick and short strided, etc. This is not different than any other paso. What I've tried to describe is the ideal type expression to look for in a PPR. These traits are given priority over many other GOOD paso traits. Again, it's not better, it's only different. It's up to the rider to decide what's important.

I'm not sure this explains it clearly. I've used this philosophy when assessing PPR horses for a long time and it's served me well. When I look at horses that claim PPR heritage, I target these traits first before going on to look at other traits that will give me the complete picture, which is, of course, paso fino.

EDIT: I want to add that all of this is assuming that the horse is "square" in his mechanics to begin with. Just like a square box--equal on all sides. If there is allot of movment to the front it should be equal going back. The same up and down. The same left and right. All pasos should be square FIRST. What I tried to describe are the little nuances that is PPR.

[Terry Wallace]

I completely agree with your explanation of seeing the frog of every foot.... I have a PPR mare and appreciate her ability to do just that....

Wonder if I can find that short piece of video I took way back of the horse I spoke of in the crossties...he too...showed the bottoms of his feet from behind..... and was all about action from the knee-down. I just learned how to work with video...I will see if I can find it to post it...

[PasoJoy]

Terry, where is your fino stallion now??? He sounds like a dream...

[Terry Wallace]

he is a gelding now... he is in South Carolina. I sold him back to the agent I got him from.

[motorgypsy]

Was that Tres???

[Terry Wallace]

heck no...Tres is not fino! :D :D

[motorgypsy]

Ahhh OK - I didin't think so!! He's just so cute!!!

[pprpaso3]

Denisse,

I know 3 of the mares in the Fino class........the Bay mare with the white hind socks that won the Fino mares class is "Corazon Dulce de Lopez" owned and ridden by William Lopez. She is Allegretto, Brujo de Kofresi and Plebeyo.

The smaller dark bay mare is Calibri del Cumbre owned and ridden by Gay Campbell of Tionesta , PA. This mare is Caredo, Bolero LaCE, Cafeto, and Kofresi.

The larger dark bay mare ridden by the younger girl(Mandy) is Kabulina Segunda. (owned by Barb Nichols.) SHe is Kofresi II and 3 times Kofresi.

Don't know the pinto mare name or owner name......I think his name is Greg and he is from WV.

The 2 mares in the Bella Forma class were Calibri and Kabulina. The other 3 were stallions....Cale's Helado Oro, Contodo mi Corazon and the younger red bay colt is out of Tiffany's Travesura and Pechudo.

Debbie

[pprpaso3]

Sorry Denisse ...there were 3 mares in the Bella Forma class.....Calibri, Kabulina and a young filly ...I think the young filly is one of Sandy Mixon's out of her mare and Corito de Vez(don;t know her name) she is a chestnut filly...the young colt wasn;t in that class.....

Debbie

[motorgypsy]

We've been watching "Frosty" for several years now since we own his niece. He is looking really nice!!! Such a gorgeous boy!!!

[pprpaso3]

Thanks KyleS........we feel he is definately show material!

You will see a lot more of this handsome boy now that we have made our debute in the show circuit.

I will post a couple pics from the Dillsburg show when I get them.....

Debbie

[Candice Burger]

Ok, I was finally able to see the videos. I've been sorta in the middle of a few discussions about all of this so I thought I'd just say it out loud for everyone's benefit. Here's some golden rules I use:

I don't fudge. I say exactly what I mean so take it to the bank that I'm not being polite nor am I trying to be vicious about my opinion.

My opinion is just that. It's how I see things through mine own eyes. Nothing is going to change it (hardly or rarely). I'm many times wrong or not seeing the whole picture. I can only comment on what I see and then interpret that according to my own beliefs and knowledge.

I'm not a judge, I don't show, I'm what is known as a backyard breeder. I believe my involvement in this kind of stuff is because of 1. I shoot straight 2. I don't hold my punches back 3. I'm stupid enough to say what I think--allot. I'm asked allot by simple default--I've been around the breed too long.

Read the golden rules and then if you want, read what's next.

I looked at the Pleasure stallions class and the Fino mares class. First off, these are good horses. The stallion I liked. I probably would like him more if he exhibited more energy and would focus on his job of carrying the rider. His mind wandered off too much. He needs to get some more muscles and lose some weight. Overall, I think he needs to see some wet saddle blankets and allot of them. I think that'd fix allot of what I saw. The horse has very good movements, he's very soft, light on his feet. He moves very well and the mechanics are all there. I think he could show more if he were conditioned more. His rear is correct, he has some movement in the croup but that may go away with better work and getting him collected properly. He's a good horse with allot of potential that hasn't been tapped yet. He did not meet the requirements of a pleasure class mainly because he wasn't focused. He walked when required to corto, he cortoed when asked to walk, his transitions weren't clear at times. He needs to learn to sustain his gait and to give clear transitions.

The fino mare class. Ditto my comments above. The mare getting first place caught my eye because she had more animation in the legs but her mechanics are excellent. The second place mare could be lots better, but she really wasn't into the arena thing at all. None of the mares met the gait requirement for the class. Some need more tuning than others but all would benefit from not just riding but some real work to make them use themselves more. The gait would change quite a bit I think. These are good mares. They have excellent qualities, but it dosn't change my opinion about their overall performance.

Now you know why I don't show. It's hard work to get a horse ready and there's no way to make it easier. Even after all that there is no guarantee that your horse is going to do what's expected after all that work. However, if I lost my mind and decided to try this again. I'd do what it'd take to get my horse ready or they wouldn't go. Why? It's bad enough to have a horse flit around even when I've worked my butt off. It's worse when it's because I haven't prepared him. I know that the horse people watching know the difference. And most of us here do too.

I've recalled many an instance where the best horses just get a burr and don't perform. I attended one clinic where the clinician brought out his #1 clinic horse and it blew up within seconds of being in the arena. He had to bring out a green horse to start the clinic--behaving better than his seasoned mount. That's just one of many stories we can all tell. Been there; done that. So, let's all try to remember it happens and at the same time try to remember that yes, no matter what, you are being watched. Do your best; make no excuses.

These horses all have good paso fino qualities. They weren't up to the task expected.

EDIT: Since I'm on a roll and need a bigger target pasted to my backside, I'll stick my neck out and say that these horses could compete in PFHA if the owners wanted to. I think it's a matter of desire and preparation more than perceived prejudices against PPRs.

[motorgypsy]

Thanks Candice!!! As always a very useful analysis.

I'm glad you think they are good enough to compete PFHA because that is exactly our opinion of our PPR mare who so far we can't get registered but we're still hoping. But as you said - it takes a LOT of work and they can still blow. I remember asking one of our very famous and winning trainers about a particular horse he rode in one class. He said "He didn't feel like largoing today". And I asked another outstanding trainer about a 3 year old colt and she said - we'll see if he wants to do the class. So even the most experienced have days like that. All we can do is our best!

[Abejita]

Well Candice. with all the talk about PFHA people at the show being rude etc..the main gist of what MOST of the PFHA memberes at the show were saying was exactly that ..These horses have potential and just need WORK to be in a show ring..It was a show not a demo..(I admit there were one or two people there who made some very smart arsed comments .But those people usually make those remarks about EVERYONE ..they just had a new target at that show :roll: