Bob Marshall Treeless - Opinions Wanted

[April D]

I suppose since I've already ordered it, this is a heck of a time to look for opinions :roll: Anyway, any thoughts, experiences???

[cowboy ed]

some people seem to like these saddles. personally, i dont like treeless saddles. i have ridden a couple of major brands, just dont like them.
i also see a lot of slightly used bob marshall saddles for sale, so it makes me wonder why. cowboy ed

[halfmoonfino]

Well I for one do not prefer them. Mainly because on most western models the stirrups are set to far back, giving you an uncomfortable and incorrect position. I also thought they encouraged perching.

On the other hand, some people swear by 'em so it's up to you what works best!

[CarolU]

I have one and love it. I had a Circle Y Bob Marshal and HATED it...sold it again (one of those Ed saw no doubt). Bought an original BM and love it. The most comfortable saddle I've ever riden in was the BM endurance saddle. I bought the Trail model because I want to show western Pleasure. It is like sitting on your living room couch on the horse. Very soft.

I don't like the skitto pads they sell for them (but most people do), I use a grip western pad instead. I also changed immediately the nylon cinch straps and replaced them with leather, front and back. You might want to change the cinch itself to a cotton or mohair cinch. The felt absorbs sweat but doesn't dry out well between rides if you ride often.

They provide as secure a seat as a regular western saddle, fit every horse and are great if you trail ride a lot. The originals also hold their value well, you find them used for almost the price of new.

[April D]

Thanks all for the coments. I guess it's a love or hate situation. I used to love to ride bare back, so I'm hoping this will be that feeling, with more security!

I'll let you know what I think once I get it. Probably won't be till Sept :(

[KAB]

The reason Ed sees so many used saddles for sale is that they are in such high demand that you can sell a used one on ebay for what you paid a few years ago and get a brand new one for what you're selling a used one for.There is a 6-8 week waiting period for new ones and people would rather pay high used prices than wait.They sell extremely fast on ebay and endurance.net.

[reuben T]

i rode on barbs old original bm and it was very nice, quite comfortable and can feel the horse move through it, though not quite as good as a bareback pad. i might get one sometime if i decide i want more support than the pad gives.

[echo]

I also have an original Bob M saddle, trail model (suede all over) and I really like it. I hate the horn, though, so my hubby rides it most of the time. I just prefer an endurace type saddle or English, though if I'm gonna ride Western, it will be the BobM. I wish I had ordered the endurance style, all suede, then I would use it alot.

[April D]

Echo, sounds like you have the exact saddle I ordered. What bothers you about the horn?

[echo]

April,
I'm just an English saddle type. I find that the horn is just "in the way", and looks like something that would make a very uncomfortable bruise if something freaky happened on the trail. It's a great saddle, though, very comfy for both horse and rider.
P.S. I had a Tacky-Tack pad special ordered for the saddle, and like it very much. I took the thin pad that came with the saddle, traced it onto a large piece of paper, and added in "rub leathers" for the lower part of the pad. http://www.equi-techlabs.com/ It looks very much like the trooper pad, shown here on the far right in black, except it is shaped to fit the Bob M.
http://www.equi-techlabs.com/images/collageA.jpg

[ErinC]

I have two of them black pads and LOVE Them!

[Beth Worden]

Like Carol I can't go back to a conventional saddle. Have two (original) Bob Marshalls and love em both. Both are endurance and both are wonderful. Got a second one cause if a guest comes they can ride in one too. Now the skito pad - hate it. Got a dry back and had white hairs on my horses from it, however the tacky western pads work fine and no saddle roll so you don't need to cinch so tight. Also, put neoprene cinch on and am good to go. I REALLY like training the youngsters because you can feel "it" before it hits! Have time to correct before a bad move totally develops. And again, like Carol, I have tried the Circle Y's and they suck. I have been treeless for six years now and cannot fathom going back to a hard seat. Another benefit...I put my saddle on a NINE year old paso mare who never took a step in gait and you guessed it - she gaited! Her owner bought a BM and gaits consistantly on the trail, now. I will order another new one in a couple years and sell the older one on Ebay - they do not depreciate like other saddles, another benefit.

[Terry Wallace]

Just one comment... They do NOT fit "every" horse, and neither do Orthoflex type saddles...so be sure to give it a good try-out.

The most "perching" saddle I ever saw..was an Orthoflex (on a Paso Fino)
One of the most ill-fitting saddles I ever saw..was a Bob Marshall (on an Arabian)

So don't take it for granted that it will automatically fit...it likely "will" but just be sure, so you will be happy a month later....

[reuben T]

different people keep trying to improve the flex panel idea, latest version looks like the best yet, the El Dorado http://www.eldoradosaddle.com/index.htm

[SarahR]

I've often wondering if the BM saddles can cause a lot of heat to build up on your horse's back? Also, what about distributing the weight of the rider? My horse has gotten white hairs over the entire area of saddle tree contact, and several saddle dealers told me it was because the tree was not big enough to distribute my wieght. How would a treeless saddle improve that, or would it just be worse? I also heard that BM's won't fit a wide horse as the pommels are narrow...?

[CarolU]

Lori, I just reread this thread tonight and saw your post. I think I'll contact them about making me some pads. I just bought another BM for trail riding and want a better pad. I hope they kept your pattern!

Sarah, if you'll pay shipping both ways, I'll ship you one of my BM saddles and let you try it. See if it's secure enough for you and fits Gypsi. They use them for barrels and reining, I can't imagine needing more security then that. I know you spend long hours trail riding, so one of these just might fit your bill. I trail ride in my Ansur and even after 8+ hours neither me nor Zar is sore. I went through 14 saddles trying to fit her, so I know how frustrating it can be.

As for weight distribution, I guess it depends on how you sit. If you sit entirely on your butt bones, it might be a problem. If you're like me, my whole hiney is padded naturally and that distrubutes the weight under my butt and down my thighs quite a ways. I would think that would be more comfortable for a horse then having the weight on the two trees. What I do know is that I've witnessed the same thing Beth describes several times, I've seen problem horses 'cured' by a treeless saddle. They really do relieve pain and pressure spots.

[ErinC]

I rode in Aprils now twice once on her mare, and the other day on my horse, I liked the way it fit my horse better, and I liked the feel of the horse.
My daughter sat in it to ride for a few minutes and said she did not like it, she said it felt like she was riding in a bowl of Jello...

I was doing dome flexing, and tight circles, because my horse decided to be a bronco on me, and I never felt like the saddle was going to slip, or slide.
even getting on and off, it never moved...
if you look at the santa post I started with me and terri , the saddle on my horse is the one April bought.

[reuben T]

that's it! some people like to really feel the horse, and some would rather have the solid feel of a rigid saddle, i can live with it either way but i really think I like the closer contact better, I'll use a bareback pad whenever i think i can get away with it. but i need an aussie for the combo of greenies and steep hills.

[Lynn L.]

I have had my original BM for a couple of years. I bought it used. It is suede all over and does not have a horn. I wouldn't get rid of mine for anything, except maybe a new one!

The issue with the horn is that it pokes people. My friend had the barrel saddle and the horn drove me nuts. But she felt secure with it and did a lot of barrel racing in hers.

I love the suede all over because I am very secure. I have started my baby in it and have ridden a rearing horse in it. I really like the close contact of it. You can usually feel when a horse is going to explode and take evasive action before things get real bad. (Of course, sometimes I miss the signs. Oh well...)

The pommel can be a little narrow for some horses. It is a little tight on my friend's paso. But with a little extra padding, it did work. Padding is very important since there is no tree. I use two pads together. One regular spongy, cheap one and an Old Mac endurance pad. This way there is good padding, but I can still feel alot through the saddle.

The only horse that the saddle isn't recommended for is one with a prominent spine. I resolved that issue by taking my old cheapy saddle pad which was english shaped and cut off the bottom where the flaps would be. Then I took those two pieces and sewed them back on the pad right along the spine ridge. It works great and was easy for a non-crafty person like myself to create.

All in all, I would highly recommend this saddle. My horses love it and it is extremely comfortable for me. Pasos with their short backs and wide ribcages can be hard to fit. My BM fits my three various horses and I have ridden it on others. I was afraid to buy the saddle, but have loved it since my first ride!

[SarahR]

Sarah, if you'll pay shipping both ways, I'll ship you one of my BM saddles and let you try it. See if it's secure enough for you and fits Gypsi. They use them for barrels and reining, I can't imagine needing more security then that. I know you spend long hours trail riding, so one of these just might fit your bill. I trail ride in my Ansur and even after 8+ hours neither me nor Zar is sore. I went through 14 saddles trying to fit her, so I know how frustrating it can be.




Carol,

I just saw this, you are so sweet :) I'm going to get a Specialized Saddle and give that a go, but if that doesn't work out I'll be taking you up on your offer! I'm on saddle #5 or 6 for this horse. After this last saddle (custom made for her by "experts" ha ha) she now has a permanent patch of white hair on her wither. I hope I can find something before she turns into a pinto.

[CarolU]

Okay...let me know.

Hey, while I was looking up snaffle torture articles, I ran across this article about message and saddle fitting, mostly a good education in what muscles lie where and how to feel them and how to determine if they are impacted by your saddle. Seems like a good educational article.

http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/MassageSaddleFit.htm

[GeorgeGuns]

Is the Circle Y Flex tree the same as the Circle Y BM copy or a different animal altogether?

[CarolU]

They are different Coreen. Their flex tree is similar to the Ortho flex panel saddles. Their BM is built the same as original BMs with no tree at all.

[Linda Y]

I just saw this thread and have to comment...
I have a really original BM. It is the one that was made out of neoprene. I think that is right...it looks sort of like the material that diving suits are made out of, cloth over a foam. It is extremely comfortable, very secure and a lighter than me person can even get on it from the ground. I don't want to try with my fat patoot.
There have been no pressure points that I have seen. I use mine with an Old Mac therapeudic pad, which is also thin. You actually feel like you are sitting into the horse instead of on top of it. I also had an Ortho Flex saddle at one time and hated the perched feeling it gave me. This is probably the 6th saddle I have gotten for Cita, and I can tell you it will be the last.
Oh, it also has no horn. I had an accident where Cita fell with me when I was using my Wintec saddle and the horn gave me a nasty bruise. I got rid of it and got an Abetta endurance, which is also a comfortable saddle.

[Primroseddp]

I SAW THIS AND THOUGHT I WOULD PUT IN MY THOUGHT ON THE MATTER, FIRST I KNOW THIS SADDLE IS WHAT A LOT OF PWOPLE LIKE HOWEVER IT OFFERS NO SUPPORT FOR THE HORSE:S BACK , THERE WOULD BE NO WAY I WOULD PUT THIS OR ADVISE A CLIENT TO USE IT ON THE HORSE THEY OWN , WE RIDE THE HORSES WE LOVE , HOW WOULD WE LIKE IT IF YOU WERE A HORSE AND YOUR OWNER PUT A SADDLE ON YOUR BACK , THE FLEX TREE IS NOT THE SAME AS A FLEX PANEL AT ALL.



THANKS FOR LISTENING
DON

[Lynn L.]

There are certain horses that do very well with the treeless saddles. Even BM will tell you that if you are very heavy that it is not the right saddle. If your horse has a very prominant spine, it is not recommended unless you pad it correctly. However, there are many problems with treed saddles as well. Most are actually too narrow for the average paso. (Did you know that most trees are "v" shaped and your horse is more "u" shaped? Check out www.balanceinternational.com for an interesting website.) My friend has a short-backed paso and simply can't find a short enough saddle that will fit her hindend comfortably, and she is thin!

So, please don't universally knock treeless saddles and I won't say all treed saddles are bad. Whatever fits both that particular horse and rider for their activities is the proper saddle.

[pasohappy]

I love my BM, my horses love it, I sold my Don West saddle to buy this one, I wish I could have kept the Don West one though, just could not afford to buy the BM, with out selling the other. I loved the Don West one just as much as the BM. One thing I find is the Don West one was shorter in length, and much easier to handle, when saddleing up. If I had to do it over again which one would I want, they are both great so can't choose.

[Privatetreaty]

Last month, we had a professional saddle fitter at the barn and the information provided was priceless. I just ran across this and thought it may be of some help to those in these areas:


St. Louis area
Crest Ridge Saddlery will be giving a Saddle Fitting 101 demonstration at a show in the St. Louis area on Feb. 11, 2006.

If you would like to participate with your horse and saddle please contact Mary Hampton at 314.849-3700 or 636.208-8670 or via e-mail foxtrotmo@hotmail.com

Participants are limited to 10 horses and riders and are available on a first come first serve basis.

Participants need to bring their horse, saddle & pad, a large white towel and a 16 inch piece of wire (Electric Fence, Soldering or Romex works best).


Little Rock
Crest Ridge Saddlery will have a booth at the ARKANSAS HORSE FEST
May 13 - 14, 2006 - Arkansas State Fairgrounds, Little Rock, AR

Debra is doing a saddle fitting clinic
Roundup Seminar Arena SUNDAY May 14th 2006 11am


For more information- http://crestridgesaddlery.com/clinics.shtml
.

[CarolU]

I SAW THIS AND THOUGHT I WOULD PUT IN MY THOUGHT ON THE MATTER, FIRST I KNOW THIS SADDLE IS WHAT A LOT OF PWOPLE LIKE HOWEVER IT OFFERS NO SUPPORT FOR THE HORSE:S BACK , THERE WOULD BE NO WAY I WOULD PUT THIS OR ADVISE A CLIENT TO USE IT ON THE HORSE THEY OWN , WE RIDE THE HORSES WE LOVE , HOW WOULD WE LIKE IT IF YOU WERE A HORSE AND YOUR OWNER PUT A SADDLE ON YOUR BACK , THE FLEX TREE IS NOT THE SAME AS A FLEX PANEL AT ALL.



THANKS FOR LISTENING
DON

Don, you are free to feel anyway you want to. I now have several years experience with treeless saddles on well over 2 dozen horses and have watched them 'fix' too many "behavior problems" in many horses to agree with your post. Horses LOVE these saddles! There are no pressure points, no pinches, no hard frame to rub or press. There is padding, so it is not like you are riding bareback with your weight only on your tailbones.

The panel saddles I have seen (and I've seen many brands) use bolts to connect the panels. These bolts are heavily padded against the horse's back, but over time the padding compacts and breaks down. I've known several people who had to get their saddles repadded.