Tough decision..need help

[britzlove]

Hi,

Finally finished reading through all the new threads..now I gotta post what I came to work knowing I have to talk about in the next few days.

I have rescued horses for many years. I have euthanized many horses, even purchased horses just to euthanize them. I have had horses with advanced cancer...severe neglect permanent damage..all number of other issues. My clydesdale mare is even published in a medical journal for draft horses because she had the worst case of scratches-greasy heal anyone who saw it had ever seen. Multiple surgeries on it etc. She was the biggest money pit I ever owned and the best horse I have ever shared my life with.

Now...I have old Red...my daughter's first horse who I got because a week before Christmas when my daughter was four he got out on the road and my mother left for work around 1am and he was there so she walked him back to our place and put him in the back yard (can't mix strange horses in the pasture ya know). It took three days for the owner to show up looking for his horse and when he did he offered to sell him to me. During that three days my daughter had fallen in love with him. I stepped outside (out of her earshot) and made plans to purchase him. I went over there Christmas eve day paid for him. I rode him back to my house after my daughter went to bed (in the middle of the night) and put him him back in the backyard. Santa gave Cassidy a letter saying look out back...it was the best thing ever..such a surprise for her. Cassidy went from a 36" pony to a 16.2 (biggest horse on the place)...it was hoot to see her. He was too slow for her the very next year however. Oh, I also should mention he was older than dirt then.

I had to tell the story so you know some background for what's coming next. I have been tenatively preparing Cass for the day when I have to euthanize him. My daughter has been brought up around all this..she's known about other horses I have euthanized. She and I watch Animal Planet's Animals Cops shows all of them, she has a really strong basis for knowledge and feelings about animal's right's and anti-cruelty etc. We have discussions about the subject often.

Going into this winter I have been watching Red closely. Over the summer we found his teeth have nothing left to float, and there are few teeth left period. We feed pelleted feed and he can still eat grass somewhat but not hay. He gets joint supplements but not bute or banamine on a regular basis. He's always been ribby, but had fat, muscle over chest and tail head. Now..he's progressivley losing his sight as well. None of the other horses have ever really liked him..he's the odd man out of the herd. We give him love everyday..but he hasn't been ridden in over a year or more...its been awhile.

I see him in this downward spiral and I am battling within myself. I could use some help. Always before there was some clear indicator for the time being right to let go. I asked Cass yesterday whether she had thought about him not making it through winter and her suggestion was that I should go ahead and put him down...but wondered if I could do it over the weekend so she could stay with her cousins and not have to be there. This child is 8...will be 9 Jan.1rst. I add her thoughts, but I still am comletely torn over what to do. Part of me says go ahead and save him before it gets worse...but the other part says...there's got to be something you could do to make it better...then my brain steps in and lets me know that there's very little I can do for long...based on his age he'll be approaching kidney failure issues soon if not already...if I use too much pain med's it'll likely throw him into sever organ failure.

It's heart wrenching..it's her horse..and she's OK with it..but I can't get over this internal battle over when it's going to be too much worse. When should I go ahead and let ole Red go....Am I asking too much of my sweet wonderful child? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Britz

[ASB.Immortality]

It maybe hard on her for him to be gone but it is better for him to be gone before things get bad. If let gone on too long, there may come a day when he is down and can't get up. She will remember him suffering. I would prefer mine to remember the good days they have had in the past.

If, I am saying IF here, this is the beginning of ending, let the end be quick. I would hate for any child to remember the horse they loved and grew up with in his/her glory not weakend, weary, or suffering.

[Barbwire]

Aww, Britz that is heartwrenching! Your daughter is one smart cookie and so are you. You know what to do, so do it. ((hugs))

[lisa l aka marci]

Britz - I know it isn't an easy decision to make, but I think your heart is telling you what you should do.........I went through this last winter with my mare Lucy, when she had a few VERY bad days.....fortunately for me she got better, but only after I had already made the phone calls for an excavator, check teh haulers' price, vet cost etc.......I'm still on the fence for this winter - Lucy didn't get her usual body cover this year, is hard to trim due to arthritis, and didn't even shed out totally (possible Cushings started?).........I have a little bit of time, but know I will do the 'right thing' when the time comes.

Your daughter sounds like she is very mature for her age! Personally, I plan on doing what I need to do when Lucy tells me it is time.......I won't like it (have owned her for 18 years!) - but I have to do what is best for her and not let her get too run down or even injured.

[britzlove]

Thanks ASB and Barbwire. ASB thats the confliction the before it gets bad. I keep battling over if there's anyway to make him better...even though I know it's unlikely. It's just been hard to come to terms with for me. I know the ground is going to freeze soon..and that is another thing that has me thinking I should do this soon. I don't want him to go out suffering..it does help to hear reassurances.

Thanks so much.

Britz

[Terry Wallace]

You are watching the decline of a good friend. I have gone through this several times myself. I took back a mare I sold as a two year old when she was 27 and her owner had passed away...had owned that mare for 25 years.....Yes, I was well aware I would be the one euthanizing that mare...that I was "chosen" to carry out the inevitable chore, that she would never leave my property...alive.

I watched the same thing in my own herd. The mare began to decline about a month after I got her home. I took her up to my vet and she too, had very little tooth left, also had two rotten molars that had to be pulled at the upper end of both jaws.

It really didn't help. My herd never really accepted her, and as she began to decline further, the herd ..I think...regarded her as a dying mare they did not want around anymore. Much the same as what wild herds do when they make an old horse an "outcast". This made her decline even faster, and one day I had seen enough, and made the decision.

I had raised this mare...bought her mother, bred her mother back in QH days...to produce her. It was like I felt responsible for bringing her into the world, and I felt responsible for putting her down...for being able to see the time was here. It was very hard to do... but needed to be done...it was that fine line of ...why am I keeping her alive? For my own satisfaction? For her own well being? It became clearer and clearer that she was not going to get any better...organ failure would be next, and I did not want her or I, to go through that.

Would it help you to have a blood work-up done? perhaps it would help you decide what is best. For me, the hardest part is letting go.... or the realization that I MUST let go..... ;-)

[britzlove]

Thanks Lisa...it's the knowing when the time comes I am having a problem with. Before it was things like....organ failure....cancer progression hindering quality of life, I bought a pony with a severed spine one time that I put to sleep on the auction grounds. (That was the easiest thing I ever did) I had a blind pony that went suddenly deaf as a post...she was older..that was a pretty easy call too.

This is different. I am pre-empting the worst. I am wondering whether to do it before something really bad happens. It's like I know it's going to get worse because of my experience...but my heart just does not want to accept that. Do I spare him those days or be ready the first day something does? Or, is it even fair to wait for that day, is even one REALLY bad day better to avoid if you know it's coming?

Thanks for reassurances!

Britz

[ASB.Immortality]

I have dealt with this a few times before. Last summer when one of my best friends was well on his way to being very bad off. I made the decision to make it easy for him. I k new when I watched him get up one day. Rolling was his favorite pastime and he could barely get up. On top of that was losing weight before fall every hit. It was time. He was 31. I still miss him but did the right thing.

I also go by this alot too. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Sometimes things work out for the better and sometimes not.

Good luck with this and I know how hard it is. I know whatever you choose will be right.

[britzlove]

Thanks Terry...it always helps to have those stories told. Made me smile.

The bloodwork? Well...that would tell me if he's in any organ failure and more..but it won't help him. I know in my heart he's beyond medical help really..like I said other than hopping him up on meds, which I won't do. It helped to hear you say...why am I keeping her alive...and best interests. I think you are all right and I am so greatful you helped me.

Britz

[Pam M]

On the other hand...

If you feel he might not be quite ready, maybe you can put him on beet pulp? I have a 25 y.o. gelding in similar condition, who could no longer eat hay, and the beet pulp has turned him into a new horse. My vet calls it miracle food.

Just a thought.

[britzlove]

Thank you as well Pam. I knew my friends on the list would help.

Britz

[Carol Nelson]

Britz, I had to say goodbye to two old friends this past summer...one, my 20 year old blind kitty that I had since she was two...and the other, our 14 year old Rottweiler, Bear. Like you say, you really do know when the time comes that it is right to take that step. For my kitty, it was when she could no longer stand nor walk...for Bear, almost the same reasons. We may have let it go on longer than we should have but it was so hard to take that final step. But both of them let us know when, and both went very peacefully.
I have two 21 year old Pasos, a 19 year old QH and a 19 year old Paso mare. I know the time is coming for my horses too. Will I probably let it go on longer for them than it should...I don't know...it depends on how much they are suffering. I guess when I make that decision, I have to be sure in my heart that there is no coming back from the point they are at. I had people recommend years ago I should put down my one mare, Danzarina, but she has been on joint supplements now and is almost 100% again...so thank God I didn't listen to them then.
It's a hard decision...I nor anyone else unfortunately can make it for you...I'll say a prayer for you, and tell you that really, they DO tell you themselves when it's time to go.
Will edit this to add...perhaps a question to ask yourself...is do they still get enjoyment out of life? Is there still a brightness to their eyes, a whinnied greeting, an exhuberance when they get their hay, if so...then perhaps it is not time...when those things are not there...then it is time.

[britzlove]

Thanks so much Carol. That was a real big help. Some brightness is still there..he's still happy when he eats..but the rest of the day...not at all he gets more and more isolated. I think I just needed the reassurances that I was doing the right thinking.

Britz

[Mellifluous]

More on the beetpulp.

I have been feeding my old lady the beet pulp based senior feed. I add warm water and make it into her special "oatmeal" - she is maintaining her weight and attitude with it. Her topline is a little lackluster but I expect that with an older horse. Her ribs are covered and that is what matters to me. She will be 24 in the spring and is still the alpha of my herd.

I can tell that her joints are getting creaky but she tries not to let on. ;-)

[Minouri]

Snowy had a bad spell earlier this year when we "retired" him. He became a horse that the farrier suggested I should probably put down before he stops being able to get up. With his ever increasing blindess and then a loss of mobility I was faced with the same decision. He could barely lift his leg to clean his hoof.

Now Snowy had something I could fix. By excercising him on a regular basis he has fully functioning joints again.....I believe thanks to improved muscle tone.

It doesn't sound like there is too much you can do for Red....especially if his organs are already beginning to fail. You're hanging on for a sad ride at the end.

It's one of the hardest choices and one that no one can really make for you. It's also one that we each face everytime we fall in love with an animal and take responsibility for it.

Trust your instincts. You've got to get past the guilt. Try pretending a friend was telling you this story. What advice would you give them?

No matter how much I love Snowy and am happy with his improvement.....if this winter I see him struggling to get up.......I'll make that sad decision myself. I promised Snowy that I would do my best to care for him....and part of that is to do my best to insure that he is healthy, safe, and that when his end comes it is not alone, freezing in a field of snow, unable to get up. I love him enough to work extra hard to improve his quality of life. And I love him enough to let him go when my efforts are no longer enough.

Follow your instincts. But we're here for you either way. That's the wonder of this board. We really care for each other.

And your daughter will be fine. She'll watch you and learn from how you deal with it. So don't torture yourself with guilt. Do what you need to do with grace and love and that's what your daughter will take with her from the experience.

[GeorgeGuns]

Oh Britz bless your heart.
Your daughter is a fine girl for being so candid and understanding and also for being honest about not wanting to be there. Maybe save some hair for her?

Planning euthanisia is the pits, but look at it like this. Its November, he's thin, he's going blind, Indiana winters aren't easy. You'll be heling him out of a tough situation.

If he is that old, and has that little tooth left, waiting too long may put you in the position of having to watch him colic and then euthanize him - that is something you may not want to put your daughter through.

Shoot now i'm all teared up.

If I had the choice between euthanizing and finding them passed in the pasture or worse... and i've been there, I'd choose euthanasia.

If I had not found a real nice gal to take my old lady horse, I'd probably be putting her down this winter, she just isn't keeping up either. The lady is informed that this may be the inevitable choice sooner than later, and she seems okay with it. When they get to that old stage, kindness counts for everything, its all we have left to give them.

[britzlove]

Gosh Thanks Minouri and GeorgeGuns...I can't tell you how greatful I am that all of you have given your understanding support.

Thinking of the advice I'd give a friend is helpful too..I would tell them much the same as you've all told me.
I found a person for a little pony thats well over 40 years old whom several vets have said it's too bad we don't know for sure when she was born because she maybe the oldest horse known..sweet lil Rebecca..but the difference I think is that Rebecca has bad feet..little tooth...but has not lost a bit of the zest for life, she's still very spunky.

I think what it just comes down to is that thought that I don't want to watch him get worse..rather let him go now while it will be peaceful. And when I think of the advice on trying to bring him back I'm trying to think of things like...what if he falls...what if he starts having heart trouble. Like you mentioned I don't want to find him down...thanks everyone for being there. I am very greatful.

Britz

[TrueStepPaso]

It's a hard decision...I nor anyone else unfortunately can make it for you...I'll say a prayer for you, and tell you that really, they DO tell you themselves when it's time to go.
Will edit this to add...perhaps a question to ask yourself...is do they still get enjoyment out of life? Is there still a brightness to their eyes, a whinnied greeting, an exhuberance when they get their hay, if so...then perhaps it is not time...when those things are not there...then it is time.

I agree with this. You just know...because THEY let you know. I feel that you are struggling more with this one because your daughter is attached to this issue more than your previous ones, so it makes it more complicated for you....also, that you somehow know that he's not quite ready yet. If that is the case, then sleep on it.

You don't neccessarily have to let it be a "really bad" event that happens prior to your acceptance of euthanasia....maybe it could be his ONE refusal of food, or a stumble from loss of vision...??? It just seems like your "sixth sense" is holding you back.....

[britzlove]

Truestep...there's sixth sense going on but I think it's telling me...has been telling me he's declining. I've been watching him since late spring because I just couldn't put my finger on it but I knew it was time to start paying attention.
What's holding me back is that I am so much closer to him I think. And my daughter..though she sometimes handles alot better than me. I think I just know I shouldn't let him get too much worse off.

I know if it was me and someone had knowledge that I would suffer I would want them to prevent it for me. I guess that's where I am now with him.
Thanks so much!

Britz

[TrueStepPaso]

Well, good luck...! I'm sure you'll do the right thing because you are staying in-tune with him, and keeping a close eye....