Grunting while being ridden - questions inquiring minds want

[Beth Worden]

Here's one for you. I have always heard that a grunting horse was a contented horse - grunting while ridden. I have also heard that a "girthy" horse will grunt while ridden especially going downhill. I have had two mares that did this. One little paso fino mare I drove a lot and she would grunt, grunt grunt down the road at a corto.

My bay icelandic mare grunts a lot while ridden. She gets entire operas going on, I swear! It is amusing.

Neither one of these mares were/are cinchy. AND even if ridden bareback the icelandic still grunts along like a piglet. I can't remember if the paso mare did.

So my question is, do any of you have grunting horses (while ridden) and if so, are they mares or geldings/studs? Remember, not talking about sheath-air noises just grunts.

Do you think it's habit? Something else?

[PasoJoy]

Fundador HATES being behind another horse and if I make him do it he starts making these grunting noises deep down in his throat...http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/crazy/349.gif....sounds like a bear growling.... :shock: and he turns into a FINO horse... 8-)
Or if I just try and slow him down if he doesn't want to he does it too...he is a VERY vocal horse....he also squeals at me if I make him do something he doesn't want to do... :-?

[paintedhorizon]

My old mare Sage used to do that after about 30 mins of riding. Her new owner called me all concerned (she's a newbie to horses) and I calmed her right down. I think she was just doing it when she was bored.

[Terry Wallace]

Hmmm... I find it very annoying...sort of like "lip flapping".

I don't see how either condition denotes a happy horse...
To me it denotes an annoyed horse, or nervous horse or both.
JMO...

[PasoJoy]

I agree Terry, Fundador's grunting seems to be because he is ANNOYED with me...especially if I try to make him behave.... :roll:

[Boyd R]

Carlos would grunt as if I were way to much weight for him to carry around. I would get of and walk him a bit.. He then made the mistake of grunting while I was walking him. No more walking for me. he grunted as a stud and as a gelding.

[Beth Worden]

Boyd - I hear ya. I kind of (but not much) feel guilty when riding this mare. She is overweight (but not as bad as when I got her) and that may contribute to it. She has gained condition now but is still grunting away. Up hill, down hill, on the flat. She's a grunting fool. I really think it's habit. Her way of keeping cadence. Her ears are up or twisting to listen to me, she is light on the bit, happy - absolutely no sign of disconfort or aggrevation. At the point, in the middle, at the tail, still grunting. I would love to know if anyone else has an explaination for this.

I remember my mother telling me a grunting horse (while riding or driving) was a very content horse, but I wonder if this is one of those old wives-tales that has been passed on OR it is a fact? Anyone?

[Beth Worden]

Terry - BOTH of these grunters of mine were happy! That's the thing. Far from high-strung or anything of the sort. THey are just plodding along the trail. Now if I pick up the reins and ask for some collection she stops. Otherwise, she "sings" That is what is puzzeling. It is the darnest thing.

[Beth Worden]

Deleted double post

[Terry Wallace]

I would tend to think wives tale...because I have trained and ridden so many, many horses and NONE of them did this. I considered the majority of those horses to be "happy".

Grunting , to me... is a sign of something...but what exactly? Annoyance? Inability to get enough air into the lungs to satisfy the body's demand? nervousness? Out of shape? Muscle or back pain? I can't say for sure...but I haven't had a grunting horse...

I'd be looking for a reason for the grunting... stomach pain? Ulcer? gas? heart murmur?

[Beth Worden]

Terry - while I can't completely rule out ulcers, etc, I can honestly say this horse appears healthy and happy. But - you have a point with "out of shape". THis horse was never ridden - just saddle until I got her a couple months ago. She was dangerously fat, but as you know, I could not stop feeding her - just gradually cut rations waaaay down and exercise, exercise, exercise. I will have to monitoe a bit more and see if she is grunting as much as when she first started. Hmmmm. And, yes, I have had many, many horses over the years, as well as my parents and I only recall a handful that were "grunters", but indeed there were some.

[GeorgeGuns]

Aw no need to get all diagnostic about grunting - unless the horse is standing still and looking colicky! Encoantdor grunts when he has a tummy ache, but its pretty obvious he feels poor.

I've always thought that the grunting while ridden is a horse's persoanl and general comment on a situation, meaning whatever they want it to mean. Mouse grunts, usually before she clears her airway, but she has often gone down the trail sounding like a train. She was anything but unhappy, she LOVED trail riding.

[Terry Wallace]

Aw no need to get all diagnostic about grunting

That would be your "opinion"...

Mine would be I want to know WHY. I would not consider this a "normal" thing for a horse to be doing. I don't ride with anyone who has a grunting horse either....

Got a couple lip flapper riders... and yes both those horses act very nervous and not very happy...

Beth...does anything else go along with the grunting...tail swishing? head hanging low? Gut sounds audible from the saddle? Just wondering...
Not too sure I'd excuse it entirely without checking it out....JMO

[Beth Worden]

Terry - not a thing else. It is not constant. This mare has better P&R's than most endurance fit horses. She is not lazy, but not antsy, either. Will it go away after she gets into shape? Who knows? I DO remember the little paso driving mare would not grunt ALL the time, but just once in awhile. To tell true, I have not paid an awful lot of attention to see how often, duration, etc this is happening with BIrna. Just know it is happening. And, I have to say, I have heard other people's horses doing the same thing. I have trailridden with my paso friend for 25 years. She has a little gelding that has been her guest horse for years. He has to be darn near 25 himself. Anyhoo, we have been riding down the trail and little Gregor will be grunting to the beat of his feet. No stress, no worries, just grunting.

Actually, I find it odd that you have NOT had one of these or heard one of these grunters. Not that it's common, but I have know a few, but never really gave it much thought.

[Terry Wallace]

I don't want you to think I have never heard a horse grunt...yes, I've heard that...but not steady while being ridden. I have heard them grunt when they are angry... I have heard roping horses grunt now & then when they break from the chute, and I've heard bucking horses grunt while bucking...

I hear more guys "grunt" than horses! Out-of-shape landscapers digging hard and carrying around heavier loads than they should :lol:

What does your vet say? I will have a vet here sometime in the next ten days or so...I will ask him what he thinks of it.

[Beth Worden]

Great. I would be very curious to hear what a vet has to say about it. I have not ASKED my vet! LOL Never occurred to me to bother to ask him because I just figured it was normal - not usual, but normal for a few horses.

About your lip flappers - yes, I have seen a bunch of those and owned/trained a Peruvian Paso that was a "flapper". Most annoying, and just a sign of nerves to me. This grunting is not a nervous reaction, or a pain reaction as far as I can discern. It is almost like a "lazy" reaction. Horse still motoring along, but grunting with every other foot fall or so. I knew one Arab gelding who would swing his head from side to side and shuffle along and grunt to the beat of his hooves. Yep, he was a gaited Arab. Shuffle, grunt and swing, but VERY relaxed and cool. We all used to love watching "Has To" shuffle along the trail and do his thing. Now that I am thinking about it, I recall a number of horses with this behavior.

[CarolU]

My sister's old QH/TB mare would let out these God-awful groans while being riden. New riders would think she was sick and get off and lead her home. I think it didn't take but once for this to become one of her tests to see how stupid you were. She tried it all the time. Once you moved her on past the grunting spot, she didn't grunt all day.

Now, there is another groan/sigh horses do when they settle into doing something. I'm not sure how many of you do impulsion exercises with horses, but I do them with mine, and I can always tell when they settle into the pattern by their groan/sigh. Kind of like lip-licking....you know the horse has learned something.

[Terry Wallace]

I get LOTS of chewing and sighing...no grunting though.
I usually sigh/exhale audibly to kind of set the tone around horses I'm working with. I try to be sure to do that when they do it also.

if you will exhale/sigh and kind of turn your body away (give then your shoulder to look at instead of your full front) it calms them. Got to take that stare away to give them a break.

I haven't had a grunter...who grunted during training or riding. Maybe Quarter Horses, "stock horses" don't "grunt much"! :lol:

Well...except for when they are BUCKING! Then they grunt from sheer exertion!

[Mellifluous]

Lexi grunts when she poops. It makes me think of someone finally making it to the bathroom after prarie dogging their way to the toilet.

She comes into the barn to poop no matter where she is in the pasture.
:roll:


I rode someone else's mare once and she grunted while I was riding her. She was very calm and otherwise normal. I would almost say that she was bored. She was a very healthy, steady and reliable mare. I don't think that the grunting necessarily means a health problem. If the horse is OK otherwise just enjoy the fact that you have a unique horse - a grunting horse is much better than one that passes gas constantly.

[Barbwire]

Beth, I am laughing sooo hard right now! WOW, excellent use of verbage!

I can verify that Beth's mare, does indeed sound like a sty full of very musical pigs when maneuvering down hills :D

[Beth Worden]

Yeah Barb - it's really kinda like she's singing or humming or something, don't ya think? She sure does not act like there is any pain at all. And nervous???? The mare don't know the meaning of the word.

[Terry Wallace]

Now that description make me wonder if her vocal cord is deviated... Ya know..I had a really good article on the horse "voice box"... let me find that and see if there is a reference to this.... couldn't hurt!

Does the grunting coincide with breathing? Does it get faster when she goes faster and resps get quicker?

There just HAS to be an answer ... an answer as to why.... may not be a bad answer at all... May not be anything to really worry about... but inquiring minds still would like to know!

[paintedhorizon]

The answer is........

the horse grunts just like we sigh, because sometimes you're just content, or anxious, or playing! Doesn't always have to be a medical reason.

[cowboy ed]

two "grunters" here. both mares, both gray. both laid back, easygoing, good trail horses. i asked them both, they said the same thing, "grunt! do i grunt while we are riding? i didnt realize that! how embarrassing!"

[Terry Wallace]

Nobody is saying it HAS to be a medical reason...
Occassional grunting is one thing.... but solid grunting? I think ther IS an answer...thats all....

[Cam]

My gelding freguently grunts when ridden. I ride bareback on flat ground for the most part. Sometimes he grunts right away, sometimes after riding 15 min or so. I don't recall him grunting at a walk, just at a corto. I've always taken it as a sign of annoyance.

[Barbwire]

i asked them both, they said the same thing, "grunt! do i grunt while we are riding? i didnt realize that! how embarrassing!"

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/lmao.gifhttp://smiley.onegreatguy.net/lmao.gifhttp://smiley.onegreatguy.net/lmao.gif

[greyhorsewoman]

My mare grunt-growls ... a series of sounds that generally work up to sounding like a total 'growl'. Generally more when we first start out ... like she is 'warming up' ... and she loves to trailride, gets excited when she sees the trailer getting hooked up. I've had her seven years and she has done this every time we go.

I often joke that her 'bear growl' is just to let everyone and everything on the trail know she is here and they better get out of her way!

She might grunt-growl occasionally during a trailride, but not continuously. She is healthy, energetic and happy. I have accepted that I have a more 'vocal' horse than most, but I've never thought it a sign of distress.

[Ginger]

Mine hum. They do it because they're lulled or bored.

The disenchanted growl or grumble is when they want to do something I don't allow.

The whimper that sounds like an elk is when they're whining in indignation.

No vocal cord deviations. No health maladies. Just two fat disgruntled ponies rash with indignation at having to actually work.

[Terry Wallace]

yep..annoyance is at the top of my list....

But now Ginger...I must ask....do you grunt when being "rode"???
Hah!!!!!!

Barbwire told me to ask that....she threatened to C-I-L-L me if I didn't!

[Terry Wallace]

gee...and on my first GOOGLE search...
"dats what I'm takin' bout".....

A possible reason....I direct your attention to the first and third sentences.

GRUNTING
A sound that occurs when there is sudden pressure on the diaphram from the stomach. Sometimes a horse when threatened with a whack or when whacked will grunt. Sometimes this sound is linked with the disorder roaring, in which the horse makes whistling or grunting sounds when exercised.


I'll file this under "you learn something new every day".... this is a subject I never looked into before.....

[Ginger]

Were I ridden, I might. Currently, there is insufficent field research to determine an outcome.

To you AND Barb :razz:

[Terry Wallace]

Ahhhh..."pobre cita!"

get rode soon...... er, ah...get WELL soon!

[Minouri]

I've been on two grunting/growling horses and both of them did it when dinner was being served to the other horses and they were still being ridden. One was a huge Shire and the other was Snowy. He still does it if you toss Scotoer hay while you're riding him.

[Ginger]

Urgh, no thanks- abstinence makes the heart grow fonder, LOL.

[ErinC]

I have not read ( kept up with ) I will sit and read
but my first thought is consentration.

I know I do it some times, and my son does....
when in a deep thought
deep thought?????

[Barbwire]

Ok, so I'm reading this thread, minding my own business, and I see my name mentioned.

Ginger, I did not ask if you grunted when ridden. As you know, I am terrified of you and would dare not ask such a question for fear of being drawn and quartered. Terry is just trying to cause trouble and get me C-I-L-L-E-D!

Terry, I will get you for this!

Beth, I noticed your horse grunting more when going down hills than on the flats. I rode a mule once that did the same thing, grunting going down every hill. He made me feel guilty for riding him.

[Terry Wallace]

Oh no! I'm caught now...caught in the Barbwire...YIKES!

I think I read something about the condition being worse going downhill...will have to zap that back up and quote it.....

[jodiTowne]

I have ridden with Beth and Birna and agree with Beth that it does not compromise her in any way. But...the vocal cord issue did ring a bell with me. My father-in-law races standardbreds and it seems he had a grunter "worked up". I'll e-mail him when my kids allow it(picture jello sprouting out of lips and pizza being rubbed into the table).

Solona grunts for short periods during rides...I think she hopes I'll be a sucker and feel sorry for her

[Beth Worden]

You know it COULD be a diaphram thing. Terry - I have heard "roarers" this is not the same thing at all. Does not seem conected to the breathing. It seems like shes humming is all I can say. It might be too much fat??? You know how obese people kind of make a lot more noise when exercising? And, it is not all the time. But it is whether bareback or with saddle/cinch.

Now here's a thought...maybe these horses are more evolved than other horses. Maybe they have listened to us blabbing away to them (I always talk, sing and cuss) while we ride them that they have decided to talk back!!!! It's a thought. Does she make this noise in the lot when gaiting? Who knows? I am not in the pastures with her 24x7 so how would I know?

Another thought...I have a beagle (Cricket) who has an elongated *palate. She grunts, snorts, snerts and my husband swears she is talking to him. Now, maybe these horses have some sort of thing like that. BTW - the vet tells me it is absolutely nothing to worry about with Cricket, but I wish she would shut up at bedtime.

So...Jodi - I am REALLY interested in what your father-in-law found out? My mother had a driving mare that did this, but it did not slow the mare down. And MY driving paso mare booked along right smartly with no ill effects.

This has become very interesting, yes?

*that is elongated palate. My oldest DAUGHTER has a deviated septum!!! Man got to keep the human ailments sorted from the other animals in the house!!!!

[Edurne]

delete multiple posts.

[Edurne]

delete multiple posts

[Edurne]

I asked Primero about this and he replied,
that yes he grunts when he is starting out for a ride, and he grunts when he comes home from a ride - generally all in the big field where he lives. He said, do we think that we are the only sentient beings that use our vocal cords for fun? and hadn't I noticed that he had also taught one of the young thoroughbred fillies to do it...... and that now they could exchange musical chords while riding together. Definitely happy grunts, also to be used during a long peeeeeeeee. Unhappy noises are squeels and snorts.

[ErinC]

Yes

my 2 yr old snoores I never heard ahose snore before.
When I groom him and he relaxes and gets sleepy he snoores.
if he is laying down in the sand and I walk over to sit with him he snoores, some times pretty heavy, it scared me the first time I heard it.
I thought he could not breath.

[Heidi]

My Appy gelding would grunt, but it was only for a short period, every step, just before a sneeze or snort to clear his sinuses:
Grrrr-errr-errr-errr-er-SNORT/SNEEZE!

Sometimes when I am speed-shopping (booking into the store for specific items, get-in, get-out, get-home quick!) I will sort of hum under my breath, keeping time to my steps...I wonder if the mare is doing something similar to this? Just something to occupy her as she gaits along?
I would expect the grunts to be louder going downhill as her insides slosh forward and against her diaphram.

Q also squeals when she is told to do something. Especially if you've asked nicely, and then demand. A quick, high-pitched noise, then the irritation is over and she does what you asked, but it is like she needs to register with you that she is doing it under duress. :roll:

[Beth Worden]

Heidi - yep that humming along thing is what it sounds like. But do horses DO that? I never gave it much thought.

OH yes, snorring horses...I remember a big fat horse someone had trailriding and back in camp that horse was snorring so load it was keeping the people awake!!!! She was a beautiful chocolate with silver mane and tail, dapples all over and she was one tired pony! She was sprawled out flat in the sand (Otter Creek Trails) and just honkin away. We all got a good laugh out of her noise.

[Beth Worden]

Well????

Terry - promised article on horse vocal cords?????

Jodi - Did Father-in-law get back to you on his grunting horse??????

[jodiTowne]

Beth, waitng for a response. Won't be near a computer 'til much later.

[Terry Wallace]

Yep..but I got busy last evening..I will look for it..it published in EQUUS, and not too long ago...

What it will come down to though...if you want to find out..it would require scoping.

I will be at the doctor today..so I need more time..have to go to town and see the surgeon one last time.

[Beth Worden]

Terry - thanks for thinking of me.

As for scoping - no, I don't think I will bother. I WOULD bother if I felt the horse was in any way in discomfort, but unless you have actually heard/observed this phenom I can't explain it well. The folks that HAVE seen this or heard it will know what I mean when I say I truly believe it is habit and even, perhaps "learned" behavior. However, why is it that only some horse exhbit this - do they have differently constructed vocal cords? Does excess weight contribute? I have run a pretty thorough search and have not come up with anything that remotely sounds like what this phenom is. Various ailments, but none that have these symptoms. So, I am going with..."if it ain't broke, don't fix it", OR "first, do no harm" theroy. I AM glad to know that there are others out there who have experieced this and continue to. It is not unique to my horse by any means. And, the horses I have know that exhibited this phenom are all healthy, and happy AND a couple are well into their 20's and still working for a living.

[Terry Wallace]

Can't say as I disagree with your logic Beth. ;-)

My whole point was that there HAS to be a reason a horse would be grunting..because it is not "normal" that a horse would grunt consistantly without a reason causing it.

I'm the type of person that would want to know "why" my horse is grunting because I would find that annoying and wonder about it.

I'm not saying it causes pain, I'm not saying a horse couldn't live with it and be productive....

Anyway...I will see if I can find that article and get it scanned and posted....

Right now, I'm headed to town...

[Beth Worden]

Terry - I'm right there with you. THere has to be some explaination, but WHAT THE HECK IS IT!!!! I love a scientific mystery. Particularly if it is horse related.

[jodiTowne]

Guess I was wrong. This is all My father-in-law had to say.



Hi, Don`t have any standardbreds that do that. Many have pallet problems, flipping them and then they roar or gurgle a little or a lot... I think what these horses are doing is holding their breath and then letting it out a little at a time causing a "grunt"..Probably more common when going downhill and then it may become a habit...

[Beth Worden]

Jodi - Thanks for the info. And your father-in-law may be a lot more right than you think. It does sound like she is expelling breath to go with her cadence. And...I have a suspiscion that it is a habit. Something she has learned to do and maybe it IS comforting to her - who knows? I will sneak a ride in tomorrow and really pay attention to what and when she is humming. She's a corker, allright. Right now I am nursing an arm that got bit!!!! Good thing it's cold and I had on a turtleneck and fleece jacket. Got ready to get everyone haltered and tied to their tree when the youngest filly decides to get close to me rather than go to her tree while I was hooking up Birna. Well, this is what happens when you get stupid...The big mare lunged for the filly and I was in the middle and when the bite came it got me in the upper arm - BAD. I could not even disapline either horse cause I was cussing and squeezing my eyes shut at the time. Any other time I would have waved off the filly and let her know her place was NOT by me but at her "tree", but nope, got to be stupid. I may even post a picture of my arm tomorrow. Oh it will look lovely, allright. Black and blue already.

Back to roarers and whistlers - you will know one when you hear one. They get real loud and it sounds like they are asthmatic or something. I believe there are medicines for the condition, now as well as a surgical procedure.

[jodiTowne]

OUCH!!!!!!! So sorry about your arm! Good thing it is winter ....and good thing it is Friday. Now you can take an "extra dose of pain medicine".

[Carol Nelson]

Well...I just decided to read this post to the end and have to relate my story...
My gelding, Nevare, grunts along while we ride and has did so ever since I got him. It is a sign of being contented, happy...ok with the world!
How do I know this? Because he only does it with me on his back when we are traversing the highways and the byways. He does not grunt with anyone else on his back. He feels relaxed with me.
And I'm kind of embarrassed to say that I will grunt right along with him...and that makes him grunt all the more. And sometimes even if he isn't grunting, and I start....he will start in grunting with me. My friends get a real kick out of that.
He also will grunt when I come with his feed can. I make him walk with me to his large bucket and I sing in a little singsong voice to him, and he grunts.
Therefore I know it is a sign of contentment...he does it whether being rode or not...but definitely when he is happy! ;-)
Oh and he does snore too...very loudly, and has done that since I got him. When I only had four horses, they would line up in the sand parallel to the fence and sleep in the sun. Usually the two geldings, and then the two mares. Nevare would fall sound asleep and soon be snoring...Cinco, my other gelding would raise up his head, glare at Nevare, and then get up, go down to the end of the line, lay down and go to sleep by the mares. True story...!!

[CarolU]

Perhaps this is a case where we are again over-anlayzing something. I think some horses are just noisier then others. Just as some people are noisier the others. I find it easier to do heavy tasks when grunting, while some make no noise. I learned this while spelunking. I found it very hard to climb without a certain amount of noise..and in caves it all comes back to you. I never even noticed I did it before, and I still do it without thinking.

How many of you have sighing dogs...dogs that sigh and groan all the time? KD does this everytime she wiggles herself into her most comfortable position. It's a contented sigh. Sounds to me like both Carol's and Beth's horse are pretty content when they making these noises.

[Barbwire]

Beth, sorry you got bitten. Please post pics! ;-)

[motorgypsy]

I just remembered something hilarious. Back in Chinook's bucking days I always knew when she got really serious about it because she'd GRUNT with each buck! It WAS funny!!! I should have named her Monica (Seles) after the grunting tennis player!! the little dickens!!! Sure glad she doesn't do that any more!

[greyhorsewoman]

My first qtrhorse 'roared' because she had a flap in her throat that was not functioning properly (ended her jumping career). It became worse if she was overly stressed. Normally, in the case of one, laser surgery can correct the situation. Unfortunately, in a few years BOTH her flaps completely failed and she now has a permanent trac. That roar could be associated with her breathing patterns.

That kind of the grunting-growling I referred to in my earlier post are completely different. Honey does do this more when we first start out, but will do it sporactically during a ride. I really think she is 'expressing' herself. It is often ended with a great 'sneeze' and then she is on to business.