Is this strange - or am I just paranoid?

[Mellifluous]

Some Background:

My niece has been dating a boy for about a year. He is 17, she is 15. She was Catholic but after attending his church for a while she converted to Southern Baptist. She is absolutely wild about their youth leader. He is very nice to her and takes special time to talk with her about things that are going on in her life.

After asking some questions about the church, I found out that he is a guy that was my "boyfriend" when I was in middle school. You know how things are at that age...your parents take you to movies and you make bracelets for each other and such. He had a lot of problems at home and ended up being very ummm "clingy" and almost scary. I broke it off with him and he kept calling and threatening to kill himself and such. I was finally really mean to him and he left me alone. He ended up dropping out of school and had all sorts of problems.

So, fast forward and here he is at my niece's church as her youth leader. She told me that he has turned over a new leaf and is a different person from what he used to be. Somehow I don't think so. I found out something tonight that seems rather strange to me.

She is going to be playing his wife in the Christmas program. How messed up is that? Surely there are other candidates? Maybe it isn't as big of a deal?

What do you guys think? Am I just overly paranoid?

[Pasofinoguy]

id get her away from him. Sounds really bad.. Dateline bad.

[Pasogirlz]

Is he married or have a girlfriend? Just curious? And why is HE in the play instead of another teen? What play is this?

[Heidi]

Its a church play. Unless he is asking for private practices...I'd say you're over-reacting.

HOWEVER...nothing would be amiss if you decided to come and watch, just to sereptitiously check out his behavior around the young crowd...to ease your mind.

Overall, your niece is only 15. What do 15 year olds know about people's personalities and just how good is their judgement? They really haven't had that much experience in the world at 15...I'd go and quietly check him out.

[jmtw]

The Youth Minister at a local Baptist church is a frequent visitor to a local massage parlor. And not the up and up kind, either.
Just because it's church, doesn't mean it's 'safe'.

[Mellifluous]

Not married, no girlfriend.

I keep thinking about the BTK killer, he was an upstanding member of the church...

Ok, I have waaaaaaay to much of an imagination.

I will be attending this Christmas play. I will be curious to see how it goes.

[Terri]

Well, the bible teaches that when a person surrenders him/herself to the lordship of Jesus he/she becomes a "new" person and the old is gone. So, based on my faith, I believe it is totally possible that the messed up young man you remember has become a new creation through his relationship with Jesus. However, the bible also teaches that evil can come to us disguised as an angel of light. And we all know people who talk the talk of christianity and are just plan, well creepy. Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. The fruit of the spirit is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control".
So the question it what "fruits" are being currently produced in this young minister's life. Are you getting warning flags about him based on his current life or based on what you remember about him. Either way, your feelings are legimate and I would encourage you to watch him closely.

As for the Christmas play, I personally don't like the new productions, but would rather see a bunch of little kids in angel wings re-enacting the original script as written by the Holy Spirit, but that is just me.

[Carol Nelson]

Does being his wife involve any physical contact in the play, ie., kissing??? If so, get her out of there...

A very "innocent" way to get a chance to fondle her.

[PASOFAN]

Well, the bible teaches that when a person surrenders him/herself to the lordship of Jesus he/she becomes a "new" person and the old is gone. So, based on my faith, I believe it is totally possible that the messed up young man you remember has become a new creation through his relationship with Jesus. However, the bible also teaches that evil can come to us disguised as an angel of light. And we all know people who talk the talk of christianity and are just plan, well creepy. Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. The fruit of the spirit is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control".
So the question it what "fruits" are being currently produced in this young minister's life. Are you getting warning flags about him based on his current life or based on what you remember about him. Either way, your feelings are legimate and I would encourage you to watch him closely.

As for the Christmas play, I personally don't like the new productions, but would rather see a bunch of little kids in angel wings re-enacting the original script as written by the Holy Spirit, but that is just me.

Big Ditto.
I wouldnt judge too quickly until you see for yourself his new life. I would go and get together with him, in a inoccent get to know him again way... Good luck! I hope he has changed..

[cowboy ed]

yeah mel, go hang around during rehearsal. see if you can get a read on the situation. also, you need to see what kind of reaction you get from the youth director. see if you make him nervous, or if he is all nice and friendly. yes, people can change and change drastically. nothing wrong with being a bit overprotective and checking things out, though.

[Pasofinoguy]

I think its creepy that he is in the play. Does he think he is still a teeny.

[pnalley]

I must agree with Terri

People can and do change when they "accept the Lord" into their lives.

But, this is your niece. Go, look, hang out. Be sure he knows you are watching.

Like someone else said, see his reaction to YOU. Also do some research. How long has he been a youth minister? Has he produced a play before? Was he part of it? As a rule people WANT to talk about their church, "ask and you shall receive"

BTW, if the hairs on the back of your neck are standing up, follow your instincts!

[Blameitonbrio]

He could certainly have changed his life, but I would err on the side of caution. Go to the next practice and see what you think. It is weird to me that he is in the play -- I want to say it seems inappropriate, but I don't know the whole situation. I think you are right to be cautious, Just check it out and hopefully you can just laugh at yourself later on.

[Mellifluous]

I can't monitor this very closely as she lives an hour and a half away.

One other thing that raised a flag with me was an incident this summer. She was with the youth group at bible camp. On one of the away activity days, she was not feeling well. He stayed behind with her and they spent the whole day together and talked all day long.

There are some changes in her overall attitude and a few small things that seem different about her. I am not sure that he is the best influence even if he isn't being creepy. Whatever she is being taught there is alienating her from her family and making her more and more dependant on the church and her boyfriend.

[pnalley]

Follow your instincts.

[Heidi]

There are some changes in her overall attitude and a few small things that seem different about her. I am not sure that he is the best influence even if he isn't being creepy. Whatever she is being taught there is alienating her from her family and making her more and more dependant on the church and her boyfriend.
Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!

[Blameitonbrio]

After reading your last post, I have to say that I would have my hackles up too.

Following is my opinion and some things I would require to send my own children to youth group (and yes, Grayson is active in our church's youth group): It is inappropriate for him to be spending time alone with one of the youth in his charge. Also, a youth group should have clearly defined rules about how situations should be handled where one leader and one child is left alone. A youth group should have male and female leaders and enough chaperones to handle situations like someone not feeling well so that a leader and child don't have to be left alone. These rules are for everyone's protection. I don't consider these rules an unfortunate effect of the moral decline of our world (because I don't think that way); I consider them the product of more enlightened times where children are valued.

There could be other perspectives on this situation that would make me think, "Oh! That's all it is! No harm there!" But I haven't heard it yet, and since your niece is involved, I think that you are right to be concerned. If there is a way to investigate further, I wouldn't consider it paranoia; I would consider it smart.

What does her boyfriend think of this guy?

[Jasfino]

Something about it seems strange to me..

[ASB.Immortality]

It is creepy, he is creepy, and the whole situation is just creepy. He is twice her age if not older, and has always made it a habit of "just talking" with younger girls. It is wrong, and something should be done with him.

I would at least have the talk about him to her. Explain that yes, you do know people can change but past history still accounts for alot. Please be careful.

[macadoo]

Where are her parents...Aren't they concerned ??? Can't you talk to them and get them to check it out?????

[motorgypsy]

Fortunately middle school behavior is not indicative of adult behavior. He very well could have grown up into a very empathetic adult who really understands how difficult the teen years are. But I'm a big believer in intuition even though mine has certainly been wrong plenty of times. I would think if you approach it properly your going to watch her practice will just come across as though you really like your niece and just enjoy watching the things she participates in since you have no human kids of your own. Good luck and let's hope you're intuition is wrong. I taught with a guy who was a real pied piper type and I never trusted him. It turned out that he was growing marijuana and selling it to kids. Pitiful.

[Jane Hurl]

Whatever she is being taught there is alienating her from her family and making her more and more dependant on the church and her boyfriend.

Whoa, Nellie! I'm with PasoFinoGuy on this one. Creepy.

And if what you said here (quote above) is right ... GET HER AWAY FROM THERE!

[Ginger]

Mel, read Lemony Snicket's first book. Two words to remember: Count Olaf.

Everyone on here KNOWS my POV- he's a Southern Baptist. To me, there's little worse, except for maybe people involved in Amway, and of course the Super Adventure Club. As she's only fifteen and he's a Youth Leader- that's scary. Youth leaders in the SoBab "group" are very charismatic and persuasive- it's their job, after all- they have to "save" people (and I honestly believe that some DO have good intentions. I haven't MET any such, but I'm sure they're out there. )

Religious context or not- it isn't professional to be in a one-on-one situation like this. Most "normal" men wouldn't even THINK of putting themselves in a situation like this, because they're scared of what others might say- that is normal and healthy, and what men should do if they aren't indeed weirdos.

Of course nobody's going to think about this but people with a shred of their own common sense left... the parents think "but he's in the church, he can't be BAD, because god is GOOD. Well, yes, god might be good- but sometimes the people who pretend to be his followers aren't. Even people who ARE his followers aren't the best at it and screw things up. Look at all of the people who bomb abortion clinics. Look at "Pedophiles for Christ"- yes, there is such a group.

Whatever she is being taught there is alienating her from her family and making her more and more dependant on the church and her boyfriend.

Sounds like the concept behind any textbook example of a stereotypically bad church to me (that's an opinion). To keep a population obedient is to keep them dumb and dependent. But then again- this is only me, and that opinion doesn't have to correlate with many on here. Anybody who actually knows me and knows my way of thinking (and there are a very scant few to whom I'll give that credit- the rest can get as ruffled as they like) knows that I take issue with "dependent upon" in this particular context. For those who don't know me, it's simple: I have a history of not liking certain negative (which, to me, sometimes overshadow our outweigh the positive) aspects of organized religion based on many reasons which I'll be happy to discuss- privately- with you if you wish.

I'd rather be dubbed paranoid and crazy- but right (I keep score, too) by people whose opinions of me don't count (hi, Extreme Paso/pasopasopaso/whoeverelse/Rita!) than be wrong and sorry and liked by everyone for behaving well.

PS- fairly certain I miss-spelled 'dependent', but am too lazy to look it up and change it.

[Terri]

My husband and his friend (our youth pastor) run our youth groups. The goal is always to have co-leaders, hopefully both male and female, involved. Our youth pastor's wife is very involved with the kids along side her hubby. To me this a healthy situation. I am uncomfortable when one pastor (youth or otherwise) takes on dominearing role. Then it usually becomes more about devotion to a charismatic leader rather than relationship with God.

The one question I would ask - is her pull away from her family primarily because her relationship with the boyfriend is becoming to intense at her age or because of this youth leader or both? Or something else.

And yes, the SB do have a tendency sometimes to be a little over legalistic for my tastes, almost to the point of cultisness (sp? word?) sometimes. I grew up in Southern Ohio and a few SB in that area did their best to drive me away from God rather than towards him. I do not intent in insulting any Baptists on this board, I now many fine and wonderful Christians who attend Baptist Churches and and not making blanket statements, just noting I've run into a few SB churches that practiced a rather toxic faith.

Have a long take with your niece and try to find out what is going on in her head. At her age it could be lots of things.

[cowboy ed]

ok, mel, after reading the part about her being sick and this guy staying with her all day, alone, i would definitely say someone needs to intervene. that was not a good situation. it sounds to me like this guy could definitely be trouble. any responsible church youth leader would not have put themselves into a situation like that. you need to talk to her parents, tell them about your experiences with this guy, and convince them to get her away from him. NOW!

[Mellifluous]

This is where it is sticky.

My niece lives with her maternal grandmother. Her mother is incapacitated and her father (my brother) does not have nor does he need to have custody of her. My mother (her paternal grandmother) used to keep her on the weekends. I have been the one that gets to give her the important life talks and I work hard to be the one that she can talk to. I try my best not to be judgemental when she tells me about things and always give her my candid thoughts on matters. At her age, it is important that she have someone that she can go to. My mother is an awful conspiracy theorist and is always looking for the worst in people. My niece will not listen to her because my mother is always telling her how so and so is out to get her. I have never voiced any concerns to my niece or anyone else about the people in her life so far. This is the first time that I am considering doing such. I am still not sure that it will do any good. None of my niece's family attends this church. She goes with her boyfriend and his family.

I want to handle this carefully as I do not want to end up turning my niece away from me. I am going to have to take care of this myself. The grandmother that she lives with is pretty lax and my mother is a little overzealous about things!

[motorgypsy]

Have you met or talked to him now that he's an adult? I sure you can think of a good way to do this because somehow I suspect you'll get a feel for whether he's gown up and dealt with his problems or not. Please keep us updated. Mentoring a 15 year old is only for the young and brave!!! And you have to be soooo careful with the girls because if they get angry it's really hard to win them back.

[onie s]

Red flag, red flag, red flag!!! I've worked with sexually abused kids for 12 years, and this sure sounds like inappropriate behavior to me. Even if it is on the up and up, does he not have a clue how this looks? Talk to her parents and get her away!

[Barbwire]

I could go on and on about how I feel reading these posts. I came from a VERY dysfunctional family. When I was your niece's age I would have thanked my lucky stars if I had an aunt like you, Mel.

Mel, from what I know of you, I can tell you are a very smart cookie. I have never seen you make a bad choice in important matters. Do what you feel you need to do, I am sure you will do what's best.

[Heidi]

I try my best not to be judgemental ... and always give her my candid thoughts on matters.

I have never voiced any concerns to my niece or anyone else about the people in her life so far. This is the first time that I am considering doing such.
Perhaps you could utilize the above two portions of your thread that I quoted.
Speak with her about your concerns in a matter-of-fact way. Non-judgemental, not telling her what to do...but making her aware of your concerns may wake her up to seeing things in a different light. Remind her that you have never voiced an opinion about her friends, but right now you are uncomfortable about some things and want to let her know what you are uncomfortable with and ask if she has any suggestions to help you through your uneasiness.
Tell her about your middle school experience with her Youth Leader and how he handled himself at that time. Explain that you understand that people can change when they find religion, but you are concerned that he spent an entire day alone with her, and all innocence aside...that does not look good from ANY angle. Period.
Make this more about you, not her, and I think it may keep her from becoming defensive and pulling away. Like you, I feel it is important for her to have someone she CAN turn to and talk with.

[Abejita]

What about talking to the other church leaders?

[Jane Hurl]

I like Heidi's approach. It's non-threatening to the niece, but, with any luck, will wake her up to what might potentially be on the horizon.

Even at 15 forewarned is forearmed.

[TrueStepPaso]

Sheesh, Mel...this blows. It sounds like your neice is quite insecure, and clings to whomever is giving her the most attention....I'm interested to know if she discusses this creepo with her boyfriend..?? If she does, then its likely that she truely feels nothing is out of the ordinary, but if there have been advances from creepo, then she'd stay mum about it for the most part.

In my traveling mentorship for barefoot trimming, I was paired up with a SB from New Hampshire. Even though he was ultra religious (His father was the church's minister or whatever), and I am practically an atheist, we survived for most of the trip......until I'd had enough about hearing how he didn't believe in evolution. I wanted to hear more about why he believed so fervently that everyone/everything was just plopped down on earth out of the blue sky ....his ONLY answer (13 times) was, "...because the book says so.." :-? It was said in such a robot way, it completely freaked me out. Basing your life on one book is not something I can understand in even a small way. Don't get me wrong, I liked Luke alot, but when it came to religion, we were fire & ice. He did give me the feeling that SB is cultish....

It sounds like this creepo is unstable at best.....threatening to kill himself in middle school (all I cared about then were ponies & candy...not life and death), then finding God, joining a SB church, becoming a youth leader, and being a chatty-Kathy with 15 yr old girls.....um, maybe its the complete opposite in me that's talking, but this guy sounds like a nut job.

[ASB.Immortality]

... this guy sounds like a nut job.

Nut job is exactly what he is.

[AliceG]

Go with your intuition - that's why we have it.

Protect your niece.

[Blameitonbrio]

I have never voiced any concerns to my niece or anyone else about the people in her life so far. This is the first time that I am considering doing such...I want to handle this carefully as I do not want to end up turning my niece away from me.

The fact that you are usually the one who doesn't assume the worst may work for you in this instance. She will take more notice of what you say. Maybe you could invite your niece to go Christmas shopping and talk to her. She trusts you, and she is most likely to talk to you.

[TrueStepPaso]

Anyway, good luck Mel! ;-)