pasopedigree

[LynnG]

Does anyone know why the site is down "until further notice"? I've been very busy this week, but could access it 2 days ago....

[Candice Burger]

dunno why

went down about lunch time today

that's the second time in a few months

if it comes back, time to start archiving the topics I've subscribed to

[Pasofinoguy]

Maybe it wont come back on. Its really a shell of what it once was. No telling how the transfer of power went when charlie gave it up.

[Mona Lisa]

May I ask when and why Charlie gave it up? I remember back when it was his baby.

Mona

[Pasofinoguy]

oh less then a month ago. I think he got tired of where it was going and didnt have the time anymore for it. He was updating it and now it sits half done. Most of the links dont work and there are other things. But I am sure they are just updating there server or something.

[Pasogirlz]

Could be down for any reason. ;-) Happens here too sometimes. :shock:

[LynnG]

May I ask when and why Charlie gave it up? I remember back when it was his baby.

Charlie basicly said he was discouraged by the many Spanish only posts, and thus the info/knowledge wasn't shared to others as he had hoped it would. ...so "his baby" kinda went the way of the bath water, after enough requests to follow his wishes, and just not happening. Why put all that energy and time into it, when his wishes weren't respected? It was his ..."his baby". The site could be a wealth of pedigree information, which is why I'd pop in now and then...to learn or share also from my experience. I liked the tesio pedigree search feature.

Charlie also referred to getting into a new "money-making venture" ... alpacas, and out of the Paso Finos as a business. And giving over the site to Carlos L to manage.

[Lois York]

Oh my that is so sad...I have to say it has always been such a wealth of knowledge. I wish he would have went on with it. The spanish was discouraging for me too tho...I'd go back and forth with the translater for a bit then give up, stopped going to that part.
I hope that alpaca's can make him money tho...we all need that.

[Ginger]

Sounds like he knew he'd bitten off more than he could chew. I seem to recall a trademark swan-song of the defeated. Sad, but then, when one mind closes, apf's is still open.

Alpacas are the Amway of the livestock world.

Alpacas are to llamas as Chinese Laundry is to Jimmy Choo. Nice, but not the real thing.

[CarolU]

Well, I think Alpacas are adorable. Just a little too expesnive for ME.

I'm hoping Carlos gets it up (the site ;-) ) soon. I wouldn't want to have this site ruined the same way. Maybe Lori, if they all come here, you could set up one forum for Spanish posting and they could post there and leave the other forums in English.

I also gave up on Charlie's board. I couldn't read many of the posts and got tired of looking for ones I could read.

[LynnG]

here is the pedigree search site that was used....but Paso Finos aren't listed.....still got to be in a database there.
http://www.tesiopower.com/

[Pasogirlz]

I'm not sure, but I think Carlos put all the pedigrees in himself by hand. (and there are a few mistakes). I don't know if they would be on the main Tesio site or not.
And you guys can rest assured....Carlos aint gonna let that site go. ;-) I gurantee you it will be back up. Just be patient. Carlos is just not a technically inclined as Charlie, so it might take him longer to get things fixed. I feel his pain. lol

[motorgypsy]

Yes the Spanish speaking paso fino owners and breeders do really need a place where they feel comfortable posting in Spanish but since they have so much to say that is helpful translations are also needed. Since we lived in Colombia I will share that many of these Colombians do speak English BUT they are very very hesitant to post in English when they know their English is not extremely fluent.

I second a section for Spanish speakers. I'm sure there are enough of us on here to at least give the gist of the posts in Spanish for those who don't speak it. I also am very hesitant to post in Spanish because my Spanish is lacking and Colombians can be very critical if you don't speak perfect Spanish but I can read most of the posts and can summarize.

[Candice Burger]

The first phase with the Tesio search was a data dump from PFHA database. And then it allows a person to create a pedigree if they want to and it's saved.

I dunno Lori. Charlie's mission was different than Carlos'. ;-) I don't need to tell you how much time and work it takes PLUS keeping us kiddies in line.

Charlie just didn't have the time to keep things flowing in the direction he wanted it to go and Carlos did. That's when it started to morph, sometime last year.

Besides it's morphed into something that isn't very friendly any more. I've noticed that allot of the older members from various countries have quit posting almost entirely. I do miss those discussions though.

Business and science just don't mix well. For Charlie to keep it up, the site needed to create income. Obviously that's where Carlos came in. Now it's just an unwholesome glossy advertisement. I don't have enough morality to think that's wrong. Capitalism at it's best. Just not my cup of tea.

I go once a day to check the PPR forums and to glance through for some horse/pedigree information. After that whacking I took for trying to HELP the people who wanted diagonals introduced, I figured that it wasn't worth it. No wounds to speak of, but I'm not THAT dumb! The information flow has slowed down so it's really not worth my time except about once a week.

I wouldn't worry too much CarolU about the pasopedigree group hanging out here. Pasomom would be on them like white on rice!

[Pasogirlz]

Pasomom would be on them like white on rice! :lol: True.

However, I fear we would have the same problems Charlie did....if we can't read the offending post b/c it is in spanish....it will never get moderated. :shock: Then you would need vigilant spanish speaking Mods. And we all know how when things turn nasty....they switch to espanol. :twisted:

[CarolU]

Pasopedigree is back on-line!!! But, you won't find it where it used to be.

go to www.pasopedigreetv.com

Looks the same (mostly Spanish)

Good luck Carlos

[Cindy]

At first glance I read that to say pasopedegreedy.com. Subliminal subconsious message? I don't know. :lol: :lol:

[CarolU]

Funny...so did I! :lol:

[Pasofinoguy]

Well they changed the addy with no heads up on it. That was stupid. Looks like a foolish thing to do.

[Cindy]

Hey Adam, maybe they just didn't tell US. :lol:

[Pasofinoguy]

Ok just got a email saying that they moved to there new addy.

[motorgypsy]

couldn't get into any of the forum sections though. Maybe doing maintenance??

[Heidi]

Pasomom would be on them like white on rice! :lol: True.

However, I fear we would have the same problems Charlie did....if we can't read the offending post b/c it is in spanish....it will never get moderated. :shock: Then you would need vigilant spanish speaking Mods. And we all know how when things turn nasty....they switch to espanol. :twisted:
That is when you moderate by deletion until all posts are readable by the moderators.

[Rafael Arbelo]

Tranquila mi gente nosotros no queremos causar division ..... (Just kidding ... I am not going to start to write in Spanish :twisted: :razz: :twisted: )

I am very grateful for PasoPedigree ... The magazine would not have happened without that website. That's the truth, but time goes on and we have to move on...

This is a great forum and I am very appreciative of Lori's effort to get this going and she has my support :smile:

[lisa l aka marci]

At first glance I read that to say pasopedegreedy.com. Subliminal subconsious message? I don't know. :lol: :lol:

I saw the same thing! :eek:

[Pasogirlz]

You are a great resource Rafael and we appreciate your efforts w/all the pix and vids. 8-)

[Cindy]

It appears that there are still changes afloat. Pasopedegree is back up with a new format and Pasopedegreetv is apparently gone. No more Carlos Lopez, Charlie has taken back the ship. And so it goes.....

[lisa l aka marci]

It appears that there are still changes afloat. Pasopedegree is back up with a new format and Pasopedegreetv is apparently gone. No more Carlos Lopez, Charlie has taken back the ship. And so it goes.....

Actually the pasopedigreetv site is still up.....guess that is being run by Carlos??????

[Heidi]

It appears that there are still changes afloat. Pasopedegree is back up with a new format and Pasopedegreetv is apparently gone. No more Carlos Lopez, Charlie has taken back the ship. And so it goes.....

Actually the pasopedigreetv site is still up.....guess that is being run by Carlos??????
Possibly, but I read on Charlie's home page that CL is no longer associated with PasoPedigree and is not authorized to use the PasoPedigre name or any PasoPedigree website content he did not personally create. So, I would expect PPTV to come down, shortly...
h

[Cindy]

It was not up when I went there.

[CarolU]

I was just there, signe up, and it was up.

I imagine it will take some time to get the bugs out.

[Cindy]

Pasopedegree was up or pasopedegreetv was up? When I go to pasopedegreetv I get that the site is shut down and is owned by Charlie.

[Pasofinoguy]

pasopedegreetv is up but the old site is down.

[Cindy]

Not on my puter. On my puter pasopedegree is up, the other one is closed.

[Pasogirlz]

The forum on pasopedigreetv is down, but it appears to have the old home page of pasopedigree.

pasopedigree, has a new home page and forum that are up and running. Very nice set up. Good luck to Charlie. :D

[Pasofinoguy]

ok now i see pasopedigree.


There will be no Paso Fino Politics on this site

Do you think that killed the partnership of cc

[Cindy]

No, I think there were probably a lot of reasons and that was most likely one of them.

[Pasofinoguy]

Well I for one am happy charlie is back in control and I will help him out in anyway i can. I do like the new forum format and think that will work out

[motorgypsy]

WOW - Hard to get logged in but finally made it. Looks like an interesting format.

[RudyPM]

i dont know the causes of the break up of Carlos and Charlie, but what i know is that a great information forum is gone, lots of very interesting topics and information are gone, according to what i read on the new forum, charlie doesnt know if he is going to archive the information on the old forum.

I understand the concerns of most english speaking forum members about the posts in spanish, but i just want to let you guys know that alot of those spanish posters didnt know how to write or even speak english, i.e my trainer usually logged in the site with great advice, and information but he had to post in spanish because he didnt know english...some did know english as in my case, and i tried to post most of my posts both in english and spanish, not that i did it always but sometimes i did...Paso Fino horses are universal, but since the breed started in latin american countries, people from those countries have more Historical knowledges than breeders and owners from other countries and if they only can post in their native language i guess we all should accept it and try to look for a way for everyone to benefit from the information they have to offer.

Lori if you get a new wave of spanish speaking members and you need someone to Mod the spanish msg threads if you decide to let them post in spanish, i will be more than happy to help you.

[Pasofinoguy]

Paso Fino horses are universal, but since the breed started in latin american countries, people from those countries have more Historical knowledges than breeders and owners from other countries and if they only can post in their native language

We have had pasos in this country for more then 50 years with alot of trainers from other places. I think we have a very good understanding of these horses. But thats were the whole problem comes from. I like the 2 different forums spanish and english. It should bring that site back.

[Pasogirlz]

Lori if you get a new wave of spanish speaking members and you need someone to Mod the spanish msg threads if you decide to let them post in spanish, i will be more than happy to help you.

Thanks so much Rudy. I already had you as well as a few others in mind if the need arose. :D I would love to this site go in that direction. However, I really don't think we are going to have the flood of spanish speakers that some of you are thinking. I agree w/Adam, the two separate forums at pp.com will surely breath new life into the site.

[motorgypsy]

And it's not as though the English speakers can't go and read the Spanish parts and the reverse. The problem arises when one can read the other language fine but has more difficulty writing in it without really slaughtering the language and looking like a dummy but still want to participate in a Spanish or English thread. The translators just couldn't keep up on a really heated topic. I do hope he'll allow some English in the Spanish section and the reverse so we aren't totally segregated by language and culture.

[Candice Burger]

I agree Rudy. It's hard to post in a language that is not your native tongue and harder still for a translator to provide the best, most accurate tone and meaning behind the words of an original poster. I didn't envy anyone trying to translate a post into a different language! I really do like the idea of just having some folks that are fluent in Spanish to moderate the spanish posts. I can live with some translation gibberish that these internet translators provide as long as I'm not constantly reading bad behavior. I think it's an individual's responsibility not the forum host(s) to provide their own translations or start learning the language. If I want something translated bad enough, I'll ask a friend or hire it done.

However, my problems with the evolution of pasopedigree were several:

1. No moderators. Sure there's people with the power to change or remove a post if they were not the original poster, but that power was abused. There was no attempt to find balanced neutrality when things got emotional or controversial. Even high-tech corporations know that sometimes they need a mediator to settle out differences between departmental heads. The moderators were deleting posts and changing posts with no warning and made no attempt to intervene and calm the discussion.

2. It had gotten way too commercialized and less informative. I was sick and tired of self-promoting posts trying to sell a horse or farm in ALL the forums.

3. It had gotten way too political. Sure politics influence the direction of the breed, but frankly I wasn't very interested in Miami Florida politics when the breed is now world wide. The innuendo that Miami Florida reigns over paso politics in the USA was insulting to the many paso fino owners in other areas of Florida and needless to say the "rest" of the USA. I thought equal press for all politics from all countries and regions would have at least brought balance. Afterall, Miami Florida's laundry is no dirtier than anyone else's.

4. It was purposefully salted with controversy instigated to rile the emotions and encourage angry arguments not reasonable debate. This was done, in my opinion, to increase the number of "hits" on the site so that more money could be charged for the commercial ads.

5. The general forum was salted with commercial videos without people realizing it. I didn't care whether the video was commercial or not but it was done in a clandestine way so that people went to look at the videos seeking education. I suspect a small number would not have participated if they knew that they were providing argument to charge money to the owner of the video. Goes to transparency and integrity when doing business. Kinda one of my peeves.

6. The general behavior and mood of the forum was getting negative. And this on one of the most frequented web sites in the world to learn about paso finos. Now why would anyone want our breed to be presented in that light? Charlie created the site to bridge the chasms of misunderstandings between countries and culture not to make the chasms deeper and wider. More and more of the topics were becoming devisive with less participation encouraging exclusive conversations. I felt like a voyer when I read a spanish post and even felt worse that I had interrupted a private conversation (on the web?) when I posted in English.

With that out of my system, Carlos is a very intelligent man and there is a need to provide well-done, professional, commercialized web site that allows for universal exchange. Obviously he was providing a need for many people. I wish him well and hope his veture to be both lucrative and successful for him.

[Terry Wallace]

Hmmm...pasopedigree is down on my computer this morning.
I can't imagine Charlie staying with pasopedigree since he has sold, or has for sale most of his Pasos.

Personally.... I think it was a dream that did not pan out... I think he perhaps has come to see that Pasos don't sell well here, and that it is very easy to end up with a bunch of horses when nobody is buying.
He had his horses "clearanced" out on the website...

I wish him well and would about bet he won't be with pasopedigree for very long... ;-)

[Candice Burger]

Adam alluded to one thing though that bothers me. The USA really does have allot to offer the paso community in other countries. And the USA still has allot to learn about the importance of history and culture of the breed. Everyone could benefit tremendously from the exchange. That was Charlie's vision: to learn from each other with the breed benefitting.

[LynnG]

I believe Charlie still has that original passion for Paso finos and pedigree knowledge, and wants his dream of pasopedigree to go back to his original intention to share knowledge about Paso finos worldwide. He is also now a more educated person due to his pasopedigree along with everyone who participated, and also about the virtues of Paso fino horses then when he started out. It is all about growing with knowledge. The breed is not going to die out with positive energy towards a goal. Positive energy enthuses other people towards the breed and its very fine qualities. Its choices people make that lead them in one direction or another. Glad to see Charlie is headed back in the right direction, and with his heart too.

[RudyPM]

i agree with you Candice, the USA has lots to offer to the paso fino community. I breed Both Pasos and QHs in the Dominican Republic, and ive attended horsemanship clinics dictaded by some of the great American horsemans, and i can tell you that the no resistance more natural training used in the QH industry is something that this breed could benefit from, and not only we can benefit from the US with training methods, but also from information that can go from history of a horse or line to personal Paso Fino knowledge from a person. But as you also say we all benefit from those posters of the countries of origin too, most are rich in history and information to share.

[Pasofinoguy]

I was talking breeding and training. I know I cant understand the history of the culture but i do try to learn. I love to see all the pics in colombia with so many pasos and all the colors. Oh and the beautiful women.

[Moniece Dickerson]

Lori,IF Charlie does not open his site back up do you think making a section for the spanish speaking is doable with Rudy and the other people you could trust as mod's?If you made a section for them I think they would come.When PF.com shut down so many of us here were so thankful for this site.I bet they would feel the same.Is there no software program that Charlie could use or we could use that would automatically translate from englis to spanish and spanish to english?If so after writing what you wanted couldn't you copy and past and then put it below and highlight the text to be translated?Your friend,Moniece

[Pasogirlz]

I could do that. But pp.com is already back up and has a translator feature. ;-)
If I open a new forum, I am afraid it would be pretty quiet. :-? But I'll put some thought into it.

[Candice Burger]

Well, Lori, please think about it.

I frequented pasofinos.com for a few years because of the "atmosphere". It was friendly and the web host, at the time, was involved. If I got out of hand, there was somebody there to rein me in. Then it went through a period where it was obvious that no one was watching. I quit for years and came back tentatively in 2004. The stability was never there like it had been originally and "the rest is history" as they say. When the plug was pulled while I was away, I came back to, well, nothing. I felt very disenfranchised and that feeling hasn't left yet. I visit about 4-6 times a year from curiosity.

Pasopedigree.com was my answer for the first two years of inception. Again, the exchange was polite, respectful, informative. Debates were thought provoking. It gave me hope that after all these years, I'd finally get access to knowledge in other countries. I was in heaven. I don't get out much with other paso people, so this was a boon for me particularly since I'm the anal-retentive, pocket-protector type. Then, 'lo and behold, the same pattern developed (see previous post). I stuck it out because I liked Charlie and believed in his vision. However, the site has had it's forum pulled at least 3-4 times in the past 2 years. Information has been lost and probably cannot be reproduced because of the dynamic exchange of member participation. I'm still mourning. I hope it continues and will visit from time to time.

I joined here at first because it was the thing to do at the time. Now, I'm not one to spend my time typing out jokes or posting pics (it's too much "process") or share much about my horses. But I do enjoy everyone sharing their experiences, the pics, and the humor (yes, particularly Barbwire's). I spend most of my time typing out some mini thesis trying to get educated and develop my depth in understanding this breed. I'm heading into a mid-life crisis, getting old and all that, and am feeling a tad pressed for time, so I tend to get rather intense.

I stayed here, because of you, Lori. At first, I thought, well this is really too good to be true. But you are as genuine as you are involved. I feel pretty lucky that you have this place and made space for everyone from the pocket-protectors to the bad humor lady. I don't expect it to take on the flavor of other sites, but there are folks that might benefit from the expansion. There is something to be said for a stable, sharing environment where I know that tomorrow I won't wake up and find the site gone. I'm pretty sure that you'd at least tell us first. And that is really all that was expected from the other sites. Some recognition that yes, we count.

Pasopedigree and pasofinos act like they "own" those discussions. Truth is, we, the paso fino community, the members of the forums ,created those little gems and without each other, it never would have happened. Whenever those forums disappear, I feel ripped off.

[Pasogirlz]

Wow Candice, ya really know how to make a girl feel special first thing in the morning. :D ((((((hugs))))))))

[AJ]

in my opionion, anybody can use pasopedigree name, the only thing is that it cant be exactly the same, ANYBODY can make a forum sayinjg www.pasopedigree(whatever).com, and carlos did that. doing www.pasopedigreetv.com
so he is not taking anybodys name.
Good luck to both , each one with their goals.

Candice, even that you see so many bad things in the forum, you were still ana ctive member. i have some opionios to share with you about your post.
1. it got more commercial because no one works for free. and carlos lives from the horse and advertising that is his best!
2. politics are part of the paso finos, that's why we have an association and it was his job to keep us informed.
3.carlos can charge for any video or picture that he posted,, didnt he do it, and shouldnt he charge for his time???
4. you need to understand that spanish speakers felt the same in the english topicsl, the problem is that there are more spanish paso fino followers that english . So thta's why it becasme a spanish speaking forum(charlie couldnt stand that)
5. the moderator can do anything h e thinks is correct. i gues if the member has a question he should try to contact the moderator directly.

anybody can pick with who to stay. In my personal opinion, carlos has done a very clean job with all his effort to bring us all the inforamtion with pics and videos. it is in your hands t support whoever you want to!
TIME WILL TELL.......
good luck all

[Barbwire]

... But I do enjoy everyone sharing their experiences, the pics, and the humor (yes, particularly Barbwire's)...


http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/JawDropMax2.gif

[Candice Burger]

:lol:

Had'ja ya fooled did I?

[Pasofinoguy]

Well charlie did make that site and it did great with no one else helping. Oh and no one should be able to have a web site with pasopedigree in the name at all. I cant make a web site called Niketv.com Or Pepsitv.com. Yeh I dont know much about carlos all i know is he had piloto and carmin for awhile then vanished for something like 10 years then came back.

Here I will help you guys out since you can't come up with your own website name ok. Here you go just for you and carlos.


WWW.PASOFINOTV.COM

Man that was hard instead of ripping off somone elses name. Hey maybe i will make my own site called Americanpasofinostv.com Hey lori is that ok lol

[Pasogirlz]

lol. Adam.

Actually, I think Carlos had started pasopedigreetv before the split. Seems like I remember a post about it over there. So I'm sure it was the easiest thing to redirect traffic there for the time being. ;-)

[Pasofinoguy]

Yeh i think your right. I am pretty sure they did.

[AJ]

lori i think you are correct.
carlos was saving all his info there. So, pasofino guy, you seem like a big fan of charlie,,, so support him. ;-)
I will support carlos becasue he made pasopedigree what it is now and what will be always!
\Everybody is free to stay whetever they want, At least he have enough freedom to pick!
and I think it is enough with this Subject!
Time wil tell (like someone said )

[Pasogirlz]

Ya know you guys...it's not that hard to visit more than once site in a day if it so suits you. I know I do. I doesn't hurt my feelings one bit. ;-) I figure if you want to come back here...you will. Simple as that. So you can support more than one person or site. We all have a passion for the breed and that is our common tie.

[britzlove]

There's only one site I stay logged on to for HOURS everyday! And it has the most powerful promoter I know! And she's cute too!

[Candice Burger]

True story Lori.

AJ may not like my comments but that's the way I see it. Not expecting anyone to pick sides just because I'm all pouting and don't like something. The ability to disagree and SAY it is the power of any forum.

I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't already have some previous conversations with both Carlos and Charlie about my concerns. It's how I saw the general tone of pasopedigree going.

All the sites serve some purpose and I am VERY glad to see more than one paso site on the internet. Folks can wander around as they please picking up tidbits here and there. A paso buffet of information. Each has some special qualities that make them unique and attractive. If a site isn't my on my list of favs it can always change. You know, woman, hormones, no brain, any excuse to change my mind.

It's nice to know that the paso breed has gotten enough attention to support various groups on the internet. Peetty cool!

[Pasogirlz]

It's really is interesting how differnet sites can have different personalities. I like the Paso buffett analogy Candice. 8-) Smorgasboard even. :D