You know it's not the right horse....

[Minouri]

Another memorable moment for Alisha.....lol I went to check out the MFT this morning and I got tossed into a huge pile of poop! Oh yes. I'm pretty proud of myself right now.

There were definately signs that the horse was going to be too much for me.

1) She has owned the horse for 2 years now and could count on two hands how many times she has ridden him.....only 3 times this past year.

2) She looked nervous getting on her own horse.

3) He was fighting with her.

But you know.....I've gotten pretty confident riding my own boys....so I figured....even nervous in a ring....how bad can it be....lol

It can be you flying into a big pile of horse poop....that's how bad..... :lol:

Of course the woman said he had NEVER done that before. The woman selling him was telling me that he'd be fine after being worked more. The owner of the barn said no way is he a husband horse. Really? lol No kidding.

The previous owner used to just let him run and hang on....loose reins....till finally she decided he was too much for her. This woman obviously hasn't done much better. And, deep sigh, unfortunately I don't have the skills nor the desire to take this boy on.

Lucky for you all Alisha took several pictures....the only part she didn't get was my quick and unexpected dismount because she was already heading over to see if I was going to stay on....lol

[ErinC]

O bummer,

well that just means that Bigger and better things are waiting for you!

Hugs, I hope you are OK!

[Minouri]

oh yes, only my pride is bruised....but I've got pictures to upload for you.

[jodiTowne]

Sorry. But it was obviously not meant to be.

[LynnG]

Reading between the lines before ...I figured there was much more to this horse and his owner and story! Glad you didn't get hurt or anything worse...

seeing is believing... glad you got to see!

[Carol Nelson]

You're lucky that poop was there! grin!

[Minouri]

Now the woman who owned the horse said he needed strong contact with the reins or he'd take off with you.
It started promising.......

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00642.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00642.flv)

then the barn owner came out and started giving advice.....


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00646.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00646.flv)

Then Alisha turned off the camera and I went whoosh up and off. Not my proudest moment on horseback but since I have it on video....might as well share. Quite humbling, actually.

[Minouri]

This is the owner
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00641.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00641.flv)

[Brigitte]

A horse isn't a calm horse when they need to give instructions on how to ride him..Well you didn't waste too much time on him...

[Minouri]

one last video of the owner on him....

Come to think of it....if I was trying to advise her on how to calm her horse down...why the heck did I get up there? I could tell he was making her very nervous. :shock:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00636.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00636.flv)

[Minouri]

This has turned me off horse shopping for a while. I'll tell you, my boys are perfect for us....lol

The best part was me standing there covered with horse poop and the owner asked Alisha if she wanted to try him. I about burst a gut laughing.

Alisha and I laughed all the way home.

I'm changing my criterior for horse shopping.....I used to put personality first....now I'm going to start with........1) horse I can stay on.....then I'll worry about how sweet he is or isn't. :lol:

[appyday]

Sorry to hear that...did you get a pic of you actually hitting the ground? Just wondering..Im not sick or anything just would like to see it..I need a good laugh..sorry..

He actually does not look that bad..just full of energy..I would probably make him go and work instead of holding him back and letting him chomp on the bit.

[Minouri]

Sorry, Shelley....The first thing I asked Alisha was if she got me hitting the dirt....lol...but alas no she said she stopped filming when she saw I was having trouble...what was she thinking? lol

He might be a good horse for someone that is a better rider than I am....or maybe as my primary horse that I put a lot of time into. He did not seem bad at first. He might also require being worked first if he hasn't been ridden much. I have no doubt that many people on this board could whip him into shape in a heartbeat.....

But as a horse for Tony and Alisha? Nope. Bad fit. The horse I'm looking for is going to be reasonably gaited and more forgiving than that horse. It has to to fit in around here. The kids want a horse they can hop on bareback and Tony wants one he can run with on the trails with me.

Maybe if I sent him to a buddy of mine who trains horses for a month he'd straighten out....but I'm not really ready to take that risk. I'd say he's been too much horse for his last two owners....why sign up to be the third.

Alisha was cracking me up outside just now...she was doing impressions of the owner. Stuff I heard her say at the time but didn't pay much attention to cause I was all over the horse.

When she was trying to get on him she said....well, if i can't get on him today maybe you could come back another day?

Alisha and I thought.......oh, we're getting on that horse today. But, yep, that's probably a red flag when the owner has her doubts about if she can get on or not.

Chances are she has let him get away with a lot of junk for a very long time.

I also don't believe that he's never dumped her.

[PASOFAN]

Nothing ventured nothing gained, right!? Well landing in a pile of crap I guess wouldnt be counted as a gain..lol Too funny, glad you went though!! Great video's!

[appyday]

Please give the camera person this for me http://forums.somd.com/images/smilies/smack.gif

[ASB.Immortality]

From first look at the videos, I would say he either has mouth problems or just totally hates that bit. That could be the cause of some of his problems and then I would say the rest of his problems stem from operator error on the owner's part.

[CarolU]

I would say that horse is a product of his environment and needs a real trainer. He's spoiled and has them all buffaloed.

Good choice to walk away. Glad you weren't hurt. As they say, it isn't always bad when you land in a pile of SHyT. LOL

[Terri]

Oh, that is to bad Ruth. Well, at least you know Tony has given you the green light to begin a seach. That alone is a great Christmas present. Wouldn't it be great to hear our husbands say "oh, I think it is a good idea to look for a new horse" Erin and I would probably have 3 more in the barn before he took his next breath.

I am worried about this horse. I think he is a horse "at risk". Yes, I am sure many of you on this board could "fix him" But not for a $2,000 purchase price. Who wants to take that risk? There are plenty of nice trail horses out there in the $2,000 range. Worse for him, gaited horses are not particularly in demand around here. Most, good experience riders around here who can work with his problems would want something they can show and the local shows just aren't friendly to gaited breeds right now. The owners best bet would be to place him with someone for next to nothing who will take him on as a project.

Just goes to show how important good training is, not only for the owner's sake, but for the horse's sake as well. Wonder how long before he shows up at Crawley's auction.

[pnalley]

Ruth,
I'm really happy you are ok. Be happy you landed in a pile of poop and not a pile of rocks.

Shoot I wouldn't consider a horse I didn't hit it off with. Why buy one spend money sending it to the trainer? There are too many really nice horses out there that would work for you.

Remember you gotta kiss a lot of toads to find a prince!

[Minouri]

Hey,

Just got off the phone with some local horse buddies and they suggested that I toss the woman a ridiculously low price....like $500 and put my money on sending him to a trainer for a month.

I did think he hated the bit when I watched the video. She kept saying she'd finally found a bit he loved but all that head tossing....I don't know.

So, if you were me......would you try the low offer?

[pnalley]

Nope, he might not ever come around.

There are plenty of really good horses out there. Besides if you are going to get one that needs training why retrain a problem horse when you could get an unspoiled one to start.

Wait, the right one will come along!

[Brigitte]

Maybe he'd throw the trainer in poop too...hopefully you'll film that.
Neh I wouldn't take him anyway

[appyday]

Plan on more then 30 days I like to send to trainers for more like 90 days for a youngster....what did they want for him? Is he registered? I would have his mouth checked first of all...I forgot how old is he? Still has wolf teeth?

[Monty]

I thought he was really fighting that bit- and wonder if his wolf teeth were ever removed or he had been floated ?
But , on the other hand- I wouldn't think twice about that horse - he has issues - you can see it in his carriage !

[Polly Aulton]

Did I understand correctly that this was a Missouri Fox Trotter? If so it doesn't matter how much money you put in to training. If they are a hot FT they stay a hot FT all their life. I rode a 20 year old once that was like the Energizer Bunny. That's fun at first but you don't want it continuously.
It's also very rare that they buck. Did this horse just stop short or did he buck you off? If he bucked then he has back problems and a session with a chiropractor will fix him right up. However Missouri Fox trotters have a lot of "go-power". Not at all a horse I'd recommend for kids or novice husbands. Look at walkers in the 10-15 year age group. Walkers are a much more mellow horse and far more inclined to tolerate children crawling all over them.
Have fun horse shopping and I hope there are always convenient poop piles around when needed. LOL
Polly
www.pojoranch.net

[Terri]

I agree, take a pass. It will take more than 30 days to "untrain" behaviours. Oh, yes, it could be the bit, it could be his back, it could be his teeth, it could be lots of stuff, could be he is just a jerk. But why take a risk? You could spend the $500 plus 3 months training, which will bring you well over the $2,000 they are asking now and you STILL might not have the horse you want AND you won't be able to sell this one. Again, why take the gamble?

What is the rush? you said you weren't looking and weren't ready right now anyway. This one just looked like he might fit the bill. He didn't. There are lots of good horses out there and now you have permission from Tony to look. Remember he trusts you to find the right horse for your family. The right one will come along at the right time. It doesn't have to be a gaited horse. Tony loves the Appy. What you want is a sound, sane, healthy, fun horse with easy going gaits. Lots of breeds can fit that bill. Lets have some fun shopping!

[ErinC]

I have to agree with Terrie,
dont do it.
wait....

I have jumped so many times to fast, and regret it, ( none I have now ) but in the past trying to save a buck! ( I mean $$ )

wait!
just wait.

[Linda Y]

I haven't watched the videos...dialup...but I agree...don't do it! There is a good reason his present owner is afraid of him. There are too many already good horses out there to settle for one that may never work. Let someone who is looking for a big motor horse get this one, and you keep looking for that husband horse.

[Jasfino]

I havent seen the video either.... I'm on dial up too, but just from the pics.. you can tell he isnt a happy camper. I bet you arent the first person he has tossed.

Pass on him... ;-)

[cowboy ed]

i can tell a lot from the videos! that horse is reaally stiff in the neck. well, he is stiff all over. also, it looks like the owner got out there and drug the manure piles down in the area where you rode him, so that is probably where she kept him. not a good place to ride. also, when you ride a horse that you are not sure of, you need to get more weight on your feet and less weight on your butt. more weight on your butt makes you top heavy, and guess where you will end up!!!! :smile:

[CarolU]

Gosh guys, I don't know. If I gave up on every horse that bucked me off, I'd have missed out on some awesome horses...including Zar. Some horses handle pain by being stoik about it...others try to tell you by being bracey and then buck you off. He seems like one of the later. There is something going on with him, could be teeth, could be cold back, could be pain from the saddle or something. He may never have been trained to take a bit in the first place. When a horse is owned by a complete neophite, who knows what all happens to them. These people really have no idea what they're doing -- and they always blame the horse. There are very few horses that are really psycho and aren't fixable.

If Terri's assessment is real, if the next stop for this boy could be the auction, then perhaps Ruth has an idea. I wouldn't offer the woman anything. Tell her you want him to be assessed by a trainer to see if he is fixable. Get a GOOD trainer to look at him. Talk to his original trainer - if there was one. Get a vet check.

If it all looks doable, THEN offer her the $500.

Or don't. You can certainly buy already trained horses for $2K. It depends on if you want to take on the challenge.

[motorgypsy]

Are you a "love a challenge" person or a "call someone else to fix it" person??

We're like Carol - if we'd turned down every horse with problems we'd have maybe two horses now and would not have our very best rides including Chinook, Brandy, Bonnie, SloughP, Silken and many others so it just depends on your personality and the time and money you're willing to spend.

If you don't enjoy a challenge and aren't willing or able to spend the time and perhaps money, don't have the know how to stay safe, then please don't buy him. If you're very careful and can take things slowly he looks to be well gaited although a bit pacey but can probably go all day. We did an LD endurance ride with an MFT and he was amazing.

There are lots of great horses out there. May you find the perfect one!!!

[motorgypsy]

Ed - does this mean DD's are more likely to hit the ground??? :razz: :razz: :razz:

Honestly I would never get on a strange horse that makes someone else really nervous without a lot more secure saddle, a vest, full seat breeches, covered stirrups set shorter than normal, boots that pull off easily, a grab strap on the saddle and someone holding a longe line on that horse so there is some control from the ground, and lots of carrots.

I got on a strange paso fino we knew was a problem once and if Kyle hadn't had a lead on her she would have gone over backwards. Luckily he yanked and she dropped sideways so I was able to get my feet out of the stirrups and get off with no problems. It's also quite amazing how much better they are with a person walking beside them on the ground and a carrot or two after tacking and saddling.

Really, shorter riders with larger butts are much more stable and tall men with skinny hips and broad shoulders who don't know how to move with the horse are much more likely to topple off.

[Terri]

Remember folks, she is getting this horse as a husband horse. Her goals are to find a safe, sane horse for hubby and kids to have fun with. Even after spending time and $ on training this horse may or may not fit the bill. And if he is cold backed, I wouldn't touch him. So yes, if you are interested Ruth, have a good trainer look at him 1st. Wonder if we can get Juan to take a road trip with us to go look at him. Maybe Juan can fix him.

[appyday]

Honestly Ruth..I am telling you this because you said you looked up to me...thats alot to take lol

I have had many a horses in my life...I will buy keep buy sell..I have had some of the nicest QH and Paints you have seen and they were all SOLD..

Why...the most beautiful gray QH mare I got as a 2 yr old...fattened up and sent to a trainer for about 5 months..that was the most awnry horse in the world..she would rub you on the fence and not move off..stop at the gate in the pen and push your leg and not let off...one day I pushed my spur in her side to ask her to lope and she set to bucking..one saddle under me..two saddle a little to the side when I looked down...three where is the saddle I hit sand..she was GONE

One paint mare was so ring sour she would back when everyone else was jogging..and would kick at other horses in the line up...GONE

I broke a QH mare that took to rearing...GONE

Another paint mare was nice but kinda doggy and not the caliber I show at so she was GONE

Those are the NICE horses...not to add the trail type horses like an app I got at the killers you could not touch his hind legs..GONE

The nice horses went for $5-6K

Point is...there are too many good ones cheap then to get hurt over a BAD one...

Let him go....If you are not sure you are ready yet go back..watch the owner ride him in a halter/lead no bit..then see

I usually DO NOT ride a horse I am buying..sound funny...NO I can tell all I need to by WATCHING....

Good luck...Appy

[Minouri]

Ok, first...I read everyone's post with interest. I love this board! You really are a supportive and thoughtful group.

I sent the videos to a friend of mine who is a trainer. Her opinion was that the horse is worth $500. Not more than that since it needs some training.

She talked me through the whole ride and Ed was right...I hardly use my stirrups when I ride my boys but I'd probably have stayed on if I'd kept them just a tad shorter.

He wasn't bucking exactly at the end....it was a jump jump swoooosh sort of move that unseated me. He deliberately did it to get me off....but he wasn't as defiant as outright bucking and rearing. She thinks he's probably used this move before and with the same success.

He's papered and 11 and has some bad habits.

I talked to Tony about him...and showed Tony the video. Tony got a little excited and said that if we brought him home for $500.....he would like to learn to ride that horse. He agreed with me that we would either send him to the trainer or bring the trainer out here initially.

And Tony asked me if I thought the horse would be too much for him. I had to think about this one. Today...as the horse is.....and the rider that you are....yes. With training for you and the horse.....I can't say until I've seen the horse respond to training. There are definately things we could do to get some of the energy out of that horse BEFORE we ride. He went from zero to held back from letting loose.

I thought about it. Working with a trainer...I believe that horse might turn out fine. I don't believe he's crazy. I think he's spoiled and bitted wrong...and maybe has to have his mouth looked at. If she rode him 3 times last year I wonder when she had his teeth floated last.

We tossed the pros and cons around.

Tony asked me what I liked about the horse. He had great ground manners. He walked right up to his owner to have his halter put on in the pen. He stood perfectly on cross ties. He let me touch him all over and bring his head down with light pressure. I played with his ears and in his mouth and picked his feet with no problem at all. He walked perfectly with me on the lead line and throgh the loose horses in the pen we cut through to get to the poop filled ring.

You all saw what I didn't like about the horse.

I also said I don't think that at this time it's a horse for Alisha. Tony surprised me by saying....Well, it would be HIS horse anyway. Hmmm. A horse he could work with and our trainer could teach him to ride.

If this horse was absolutely nutsy I would discourage Tony....but I wonder if this horse couldn't be brought around if worked. And Tony would learn a lot about horses by working with this horse. Good and bad, he would be challenged. And there is a chance he'd end up with a good boy with a lot of go.

I have to disagree with the post about MFTs being hot hot hot. I've known many through friends and that's my not personal experience. They are fast sometimes, but the ones I've known are pretty level headed. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. But of the 6 foxtrotters I've known.....one was fruity........and she wasn't dangerous.......just danced all the time when you held her back.

Anyway, all that considered..... I sent off an email to the woman. This is what I said:

Hi Erin,

I talked to my husband and showed him the pictures and videos. He likes the horse but thinks we will have to send him to a trainer for about 2 months to work out the kinks. We have a trainer who will work with the horse at her facility and then transition him home to our place.

I will understand if you refuse the offer I am going to make, however, deciding to go with us will ensure Tradder a forever home. Other people might take him, get frustrated with his present vices and sell him. We are willing to put the time and money into making him a good family horse.

We would like to outright purchase him for $500. Yes, this is low, but it does save you on boarding for the winter. We would be paying for him to be trained during those months. You could pay to have him trained, but you'll be incurring the added cost and not guarantee that he will sell in the spring.

If you are interested, we could take him before the start of January...thus saving you next month's board.

If I don't hear from you, I will assume that you've decided to keep him and search for another home for him.

Either way, good luck. I'm sure you are struggling with this decision....I know we would be if we had to get rid of one of ours.

Ruth

I have to say it's kind of fun waiting to see what she'll say. I'll be happy either way. It's a little horse adventure. Who knows, maybe a good one or maybe just a learning experience.

[Minouri]

Appy,

I read your post right after I posted mine .... :lol: Good points, though. She hasn't answered my email yet...I sent it last night....so there is a good chance she's going to hold out for more money anyway.

[Terri]

Yeah!!!!Yippeee, Ruth is getting a new horse!!
http://bestsmileys.com/fireworks/5.gif
It is Tony's Birthday, isn't it? Happy Birthday Tony.
Ruth we are behind you all the way. Hope she takes the offer, can hardly wait to come see him.
excuse me while I remove my foot from my mouth now. http://bestsmileys.com/foot_in_mouth/1.gif

[CarolU]

Good for you Ruth. I know you are dying to learn more about horse training yourself. It is a journey of new experiences and I think you'll enjoy bringing him around. I think he'll enjoy being with someone who understands 'horse' better then his current and previous owners.

BTW - I live in MFT country...LOTS of them around here. I have lots of friends with them. Some are 'hot'..but not compared to some of my 'hot' Paso Finos. I have had very good luck with those I've worked with. Most are calm family horses.

[Minouri]

To balance out what I showed you yesterday.....let me show you what I liked about him....

When we got there...we arrived before the owner....he came right over. We didn't give him treats or anything.....he looked like he really wanted attention.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00611.jpg

Hellooooooo, he kept saying.....
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00607.jpg

Helllllloooo, lady.....

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00609.jpg

I didn't know if he was a biter.....but who could turn down this look?

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00612.jpg

So I pet him and he was an absolute love.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00613.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00614.jpg

When we walked away to go warm up in the car he looked a little miffed. I felt like I was visiting a dog at the pound.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00615.jpg

Could be my imagination but I thought he looked like he was trying to tell me something.....

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00625.jpg

Course maybe what he was saying was...you look like a nice lady....get away now while you're not covered with poop.....lol

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00631.jpg

Oh and I can't believe I almost forgot to show you.....in that nasty little barn (I hope the owner doesn't read this board....but I'm sorry, I thought your barn was nasty) she had a paso.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/DSC00633.jpg

[motorgypsy]

It's funny the little things that will impress you about a horse. They look well fed at least.

The reason we got Chinook was because of her ground manners in the sense that she was "kind" on the ground even if she was a spookhead. She would never run you down or crowd you or threaten you. And the one we got with terrible ground manners was great in the saddle. So there's something about each one that contributed to our getting them even if they were "difficult" and it really paid off. They are amazing rides now. Good luck with however it turns out!

[Minouri]

For those of you enjoying meeting the horse's fruity owner...lol here is another video of her and what I asked her.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00638.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00638.flv)

[Minouri]

awwww, it cut off the best part.....doh. hang on let me see if I can get that to load up

[Minouri]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00638.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00638.flv)

[CarolU]

The next video showed more. What does she "never ever" do?

[Minouri]

Carol,

She never ever lets him go fast. She lets him gait sometimes....maybe in the ring she gaits. But she has never cantered on him. All she does is her definition of trailride...which I think means walk on the trails.

[Linda Y]

Oooo...look at the hind fetlocks on that Paso. Poor thing.

[PasoJoy]

Awwww, he has a cute face.. :D he doesn't look THAT bad.. 8-)

[Minouri]

See, I'm not totally crazy. I do know my limits,, though. That's why we first checked with our trainer.

[Brigitte]

The looking like he wants attention good also have to do with the fact that the owner doesn't ride him much.
If she accepts the offer, good luck , a new horse is always exciting

[Abejita]

Ok I didnt read all the posts so I may not have seen it....Has anyone mentioned vet check (other than teeth) like a prepurchase exam? Take your vet over before any money changes hands and do a few flexion tests..look at his eyes..etc etc..

[Minouri]

I don't know why I find this woman so amusing but I'm sitting here having lunch and watching all the videos Alisha took from yesterday and I'm cracking up.


I like her quote that she does just enough with her horse not to get killed.
lol Besides that she does no training.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/th_MOV00637.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/?action=view&current=MOV00637.flv)

We share the same vet and he's known to be quite honest about the health of horses when you ask him on the side. I am not sure if I'd do the full vet check for a $500 purchase. I 've done them before when I was going to spend more. We'll have to see if she even responds to my email first.

I could be wrong but my gut tells me that she won't accept our offer. And that would be fine, too.

[ErinC]

well let us know as soon as you hear back.
You know we are all here to help!
I watched the clips again, I am sure you already had some one ask, but what kind of Bit was in his mouth?

[swaite]

Hey, I have a Foxtrotter - maybe we can go Foxtrotting together! Mine was a rescue and has some spooking problems - she is just hanging out retired, I know if I put a little effort into her, she'd be a doll. She was a carriage horse in NYC at some point. She can really fly when she wants to. Best of luck if you get yours :D

[Beth Worden]

Ruth – I have played the devil’s advocate before, and it is not a role that bother’s me much so here goes…

Let’s see…

You have an 11 yr old gelding - initial cost $500.00

Additionally, you will most likely need to do the following…

1) Teeth trouble (Equine dentist) 100.00

2) possible back/saddle fitting issues/chiropractic 200.00
2 sessions)

3) New bit (at least) 75.00

4) Training for (most likely) 3 months 1,500.00 (500.00/month)

5) Vet check 75.00

These dollar amounts are on the low side, BTW. When all is said and done you may STILL not have the horse you want or need.

So, for this same dollar amount could you find what you need. For approximately $2,500. – You bettcha.

But you want to SAVE this horse, right? He does not have it bad. As a horse, he has it made right now.

[Jasfino]

Here's what would make me decide to pass on him Ruth

She has owned him for 2 yrs, has only ridden him a couple of times, and she has had to pay to board him? To me it seems like she is scared of his next move. I bet her first couple of rides were good ones... ;-)

Didnt she say she might not even be able to get on him the day you came to see him? So he has trouble being mounted, he likes to take off, and he has tossed someone, and he isnt accepting the bit.

He sounds to me like a untrained horse. Once a horse has learned bad habits, its alot harder to break them of them than working with a clean slate.. a horse that has never learned he can do these things. I would rather buy a untrained horse and train it the way I wanted than buy a horse with this many problems to have to try to unlearn. And.. that being said.. horses always remember the tricks that work. You might send the horse to a trainer and the trainer be able to ride him.. but then when you get the horse home and he figures out you are not the trainer.. then the tricks begin again... ;-)

opps forgot to add... But.. if you decide to get him and work with him.. I hope he turns out well. Good luck. He does seem to have a sweet expression.

[Polly Aulton]

Did anyone say whether this horse was papered or not? If it's not registered your offer of $500 might be a little high.
I'm the one that said MFTs were hot and yes, I still believe most are too hot for a beginning rider. Really nice horses though and almost always very pretty.
Polly
www.pojoranch.net

[paintedhorizon]

I have to agree he looks REALLY stiff.

[ASB.Immortality]

No matter the cost, I would pass. In the end, you may spend a fortune for him to NEVER be right. Go with your first instinct. If you gut yelled " he ain't right for you!" when you saw, turn and run! That is usually the best. Just remember, never settle for something that is close to what you want. You will never be happy with it. Close is NOT it.

[Terri]

Okay, when I first responded to this thread I hadn't watched the videos, my stupid computer wouldn't play them. I went to Erin's house and watched the videos this afternoon. I think he has lots of potential. I still think he is a horse at risk in this market. MOST (not all) buyers around here who are looking for trail horses are looking for the quiet types. They don't want alot of Brio. The experienced riders who want action and speed also want a horse that can be shown locally. Local shows are not gaited friendly. This horse is gaited and has behaviour issues undersaddle. Makes the market for him rather slim around here. I think she would be foolish to turn down the offer you have made. She may eventually sell him, but not for $2,000 in the dead of winter. Meanwhile she will continue to pay board and be afraid of him.

I also believe that Ruth is an experienced horsewoman that can get inside his head and with the help of a trainer will be able to retrain him after addressing all potential bit, teeth, or back problems. So I don't think this would be a situation that "after the trainer" Ruth would allow him to revert back to his old tricks.

I really hope things work out for him and you Ruth. He seems like a nice horse that needs to find the right human. And Beth, he might not have it bad NOW, but how long will that continue while is owner is unable to sell him cause he tosses off potential buyers and she is paying board.

Good for you Ruth for taking a stab at this. It has the potential to work out as a win/win/win for you/Tony and the horse.

[CarolU]

Here's what would make me decide to pass on him Ruth

She has owned him for 2 yrs, has only ridden him a couple of times, and she has had to pay to board him? To me it seems like she is scared of his next move. I bet her first couple of rides were good ones... ;-)

Didnt she say she might not even be able to get on him the day you came to see him? So he has trouble being mounted, he likes to take off, and he has tossed someone, and he isnt accepting the bit.

He sounds to me like a untrained horse. Once a horse has learned bad habits, its alot harder to break them of them than working with a clean slate.. a horse that has never learned he can do these things. I would rather buy a untrained horse and train it the way I wanted than buy a horse with this many problems to have to try to unlearn. And.. that being said.. horses always remember the tricks that work. You might send the horse to a trainer and the trainer be able to ride him.. but then when you get the horse home and he figures out you are not the trainer.. then the tricks begin again... ;-)

opps forgot to add... But.. if you decide to get him and work with him.. I hope he turns out well. Good luck. He does seem to have a sweet expression.

I think you are all assuming the problems are with the horse. I'll just bet they ALL come from an inexperienced and unconfident rider. This owner has never dared take him out of the small pen. The video was of a horse riden 3 times in the past year...and who knows how many times the year before that. I imagine many horses would be quite full of it with that kind of 'work.'

Almost any horse will buck when a rider panics and clamps their legs tight around them. That is why I suggested an evaluations by an experienced trainer. Give the horse a chance. He may have no bad habits at all, just reacting to what the rider is doing.

There is something else too. Ruth is definately learning how to train her own horses. She works with the two she has and is getting quite good. I think she enjoys the challenge of becoming an accomplished horseperson. If she were just a 'get-on-and-go' rider, then I would agree that she should pass and get a horse with no issues at all. I just think that Ruth could save this boy. I'd certainly like to see her at least give him a chance.

BTW - I checked the ads here today, and fully trained, experienced trail MFTs sell for $2500-$3500. No way should this horse sell for what she's asking.

[Minouri]

News just in........she just answered my offer

Hi Ruth,
I still feel soo bad about what happened , i do truley hope you are ok. I had a girl look at him today and she worked w/ him wonderfuly. They rode for an hour or so and I think she may be a good fit / home for him. So I will have to decline your offer.
I do hope you find your forever horse and I hope you are ok from your fall.
Thanks and have a great holiday coming up,
Erin

So, do you think it's true? Could be. Maybe she was smart and lunged him before the girl rode him. Hard to believe he was perfect the next day, though.

Ah, well. It was a little adventure. :)

[Terri]

We are going to help you find that right horse Ruth! Things work out for a reason, maybe it just wasn't "right" right now.

[Minouri]

Terri,

I absolutely believe that. Plus, on the bright side.....it gave Alisha another story to share....lol It's good just to know one way or another.

[ErinC]

o just saw this, hummmmmmmmm I know a nice BIG grey Paso mare for sale in MA....
hint hint.

[Minouri]

I thought we'd talked about geldings and mares and we'd voted for no mares?

[Terri]

There was a vote? Who voted? I know some nice mares. Mikka is a fabulous mare. Never witchy or in heat that I noticed. I think you should go look at this one.

[motorgypsy]

Give us a mare any day of the week. We vote yes for the "mommy gene". They take care of you!

I wouldn't count him out yet either. The other rider may not get him and she'll be back at square one paying board.

[Heidi]

Hard to believe he was perfect the next day, though.
You tuned him up for her. Like loosening the cap on the Ketchup bottle. :-/
No mares because to mix a mare in with geldings could start a rivalry between the boys. Isn't that right?
Heidi

[CarolU]

I vote for mares too. I love my mares. I'd always take a mare, hormones and all, over a gelding. I love my girls!!!!

I can believe he'd be perfect the next day. I felt his problem was an owner problem and not a horse problem all along. I hope it is true and he goes to someone who understands horses.

[Brigitte]

I have geldings and prefer geldings/stallions. Of the many horses I've ridden there were maybe two mares that I really liked

[DebbieS]

We have one mare and 4 geldings. I love our Peruvian/QH mare. She is so sweet. I've ridden her with 80+ riders while she was in full heat and she still acted like a lady. I have had a few, though, that would dump me in a heartbeat if they got a whiff of anything male....

Princessa is the boss of the herd, though. She has no problem leaving the boys to go out on a ride, but a couple of them do have problems leaving her and we always end up doing a 'training session' in the driveway ;-) Listo is my only gelding that is just as excited to leave the farm as come home.

Ruth, I'm sorry it didn't work out. I went through this a few weeks ago with a beautiful Paso mare with issues.... you start to dream about that horse in your barn .... grazing in the pasture.... going down the trails in the woods on a summer day.... It is hard to let go, even if you didn't actually get to bring him home.

Good luck finding your perfect horse.

[Carol Nelson]

Oh Ruthie...I have just the gelding for you, dear... ;-) :D
He needs a lot of TLC...

[jodiTowne]

Ruth....several TWH, experienced for trail in my local swapsheet this week. Younger ones too. Looks like a farm is selling off some. Most under $1000

[Pam M]

I keep geldings and mares together with no problems - it just depends on the individual horses. I tried keeping them separated by sex but for my group it works better to pasture them with who they get along with, regardless of sex. So 3 of my 4 fields are co-ed and it works fine.

And, having my first mare now, after a lifetime of geldings, I'm sold on mares! They can be more difficult but they are also more interesting.

[motorgypsy]

Thinking back the first ponies I rode all the time were geldings but from then on my friends all had mares. I don't know why we wanted mares to start with but we do really like their personality. They are harder to win over I think but once you do it's well worth it. But we do love our boys - just trust the girls more.

[Minouri]

I'm going to tone it down a bit....focus on the barn this winter...and keep looking casually. Something perfect will come along. There is no real rush. Infact, if I can hold off till next summer I can build a nice shelter (instead of a quick type) for the boy or girl in the back paddock.

It was a little disappointing....but actually what came out of it was good discussions about horses with Tony. And the more patient I am the more horse I'll be able to afford.

I'm sending out a big hug to you all tonight....because going through the whole experience was much more fun and much less disappointing because I was able to share it with you. So just know that you are all appreciated tonight.

[Barbwire]

Ruthie, I resisted temptation, and stayed out of the fray thus far, but, I just want to say, I think things worked out for the best. :D

[Minouri]

Then come on over here Barb and get yer hug, too! :hug

[Jasfino]

I think it worked out for the best Ruth. I hope you find the perfect horse for your family.

Carol, I wasnt assuming anything.. just going on what facts were given. I have no doubt that Ruth is a good rider and can work with the horse. I somehow got the idea that it was going to be Ruth hubby's horse.. and I was taking that into consideration as well. If my hubby decided he wanted a horse.. I would try to make sure it worked out well...because he would probably get soured pretty darn fast if he had one that he didnt get along with.. :D

[Minouri]

Jasfino,

Don't worry about it for a second. I knew what you were talking about. And honestly if I wanted everyone to agree with me I wouldn't bring up a topic here. Hearing what people think on a topic helps me gain a better understanding of many things.

And in the end I hope that horse did find a woman who fit him perfectly. I think about how miserable Scooter was with some of the Dressage trainers...and how wild he looked..and how happy he is here. I hope that horse was able to find a place he fit.

[Jasfino]

I hope so too. He seemed to have a sweet expression in his pic.