What is happening to our country? [Archive] - American Paso Finos.com Forums

01-05-2006, 05:01 PM

The right for parents to "spank" their kids has been taken away.

When I was a kid I had the fear of god instilled in me by my parents. I knew that at any given time when I did somthing wrong I would have to suffer the wrath of mom and dad. They demanded respect from me and demanded me to respect others.

Now, kids are given the power to over-power parents/teachers. Kids are using the "I am calling 911" to get over on us. I have been told horror stories by friends of mine that work in social services. If a child calls 911 and says that a parent or adult has beaten them the police will come out and 9 times out of 10 that parent will be taken away and a investigation will be started. Most of the time it is a legitimate call, but then you have the kids that call 911 out of spite to "get back at their parents". Parents are so scared to discipline their children today because of that simple reason, they do not want to go to jail or suffer any other humiliation. I would be morified if my daughter called 911 just because she was mad at me for whatever reason. Do I spank my child, heck yeah, have I put soap in her mouth for saying a cus word or telling lies, heck yeah and I still do it today. IMO that is why she is a respectful young lady today.

Brigitte

01-05-2006, 05:07 PM

Wow, incredible. I can't imagine myself doing that to a teacher, and definetly not a 61 year old teacher :shock: . Poor lady.

CarolU

01-05-2006, 05:49 PM

The right for parents to "spank" their kids has been taken away.

It has? Since when? Parents spank kids all the time! and legally. You are not allowed to BEAT children...that is different.

BUT, I also believe that you don't HAVE to spank kids to raise good kids. What is lacking in this case is "responsible parenting"...and it has nothing to do with spanking. Kids are taught (or not taught) to respect other people at home.

Those kids should be charged with assault and expelled...period. End of story.

baileyholc

01-05-2006, 06:13 PM

I wish I had more time to speak on this. So I will try to make it as bref as possable befor I leave for work.

I was spanked as a child. I also was grounded and also spent time in the corner with my arm streight out. And beleave me. I had respeck for my elders. I was taught that from the time I started talking. I spanked my youngest one morning before school, because she had yelled back at me in a very disrespectful way. I poped her little hinny and she went to school. The next thing I new a social worker was at my job telling me that my daughter said I hit her because she didn't want to wear a pair of socks. I had to sign a piece of paper telling me I had to take angure management classes for 6 weeks $20 buck as class. That I am not aloud to hit my daughter for anyreason what so ever and that if I did I could be fined and put in jail for 30 days. Let me tell you that child still get a NO everytime she asks me for something. This happened 4 years ago. And she still shows me no respect. Just found out today at the teacher confrence I had with her teacher that she is disrespectful to her teachers. I am haveing this child tested.

It does not surprise me that these kid did this to their teacher because Parents today can not disaplean their children the way they were when they were growing up. And now we have pre-teens and teens haveing babies and they have no idiea what What RESPECT means.

Sorry, just had to vent. Now I am late for work. See ya.

CarolU

01-05-2006, 06:27 PM

Well, I am sorry that happened. I personally can't see a parent being charged for spanking - since I see spanking here all the time. I live in THE state with the most kids in the nation...and I see it fairly often.

I grew up never being spanked. None of my siblings were spanked. None of them spanked their kids. None of us threatened or tormented a teacher or anyone...ever. We were taught better.

We lived next door to a family with 5 boys. They were spanked. They were also in jail, stole cars, did drugs, and beat up all the other kids in the neighborhood (which their dad thought was 'tough').

I agree there are exceptions to everything, but I can tell you here, spanking is perfectly legal - as long as you don't bruise or break skin. I believe that is where the line is drawn.

CarolU

01-05-2006, 06:39 PM

I did a search, trying to find the laws in this country on spanking (did find out it IS illegal in Sweden). Most results were discussions and articles on it. In a quick glance I only found one article that seemed to list researched facts about spanking.

http://www.snorko.org/cyberwrite/eng103/students/lutfil.html

What it said was this:

In the United States we have 27 states which banned spanking at schools while spanking is not illegal at home the situation. Close to 50% of Americans use spanking as a disciplinary tool in rearing their children

I would say you have a legal recourse against the school or whoever misread your State's law.

Jasfino

01-05-2006, 06:44 PM

I have an insight into this. When I worked in a daycare these kids couldnt be spanked. I was with the 4 yr olds and up. Most of these kids would cuss me using four letter words that I didnt hear until I was in high school. They would spit at me, kick me, so I guess that gives you the general idea of how disrespectful they were. The only punishment we could give was time out and then we had to catch them and hold them in the chairs until their time was up. I had brusies up and down my legs from trying to hold them in the chair as they kicked me and fought to get up. They learn pretty fast that they have the upper hand and then when they go on to attend school they are so out of hand by that time.. its no wonder they bring guns to school. I had one kid threaten to bring a chain saw to cut my head off! Mind you that all the kids didnt act in this manner. I had 24 and maybe 4 or 5 of them were unruly. It was a full time job keeping the 4 or 5 in hand and the rest of the class suffered because of the 4 or 5.

01-05-2006, 06:54 PM

I would not tolerate a child hitting me period. What can you do, for some of the cases calling the parents was like talking to the wall. Heck, they are scared of the kid themselves.

I can't stand a rotten kid.
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/boese036.gif

lisa l aka marci

01-05-2006, 08:23 PM

In NYS - Penal Law Article 35, Section 35.10 - Justification, use of physical force generally.

The use of physical force upon another person which would otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal under any of the following circumstances:

1. A parent, guardian or other person entrusted with the care and supervision of a person under the age of twenty-one or an incompetent person, and a teacher or other person entrusted with the care and supervision of a person under the age of twenty-one for a special purpose, may use physical force, but not deadly physical force, upon such person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to maintain discipline or to promote the welfare of such person.

motorgypsy

01-05-2006, 10:17 PM

Bailey your child is very lucky she isn't mine. I'd much rather lose my job and spend time in jail than have my daughter smart mouth me and then go to the law when she was punished. Now I know you have another daughter also that you had to consider but WOW - that is seriously wrong. Time to go live with daddy girl!! Or maybe that's what she was trying to do???

Seriously you can go to the courts and tell them you can't handle her and have her butt put right in a foster home if her dad can't handle her either so you do have something to hold over her. Does she really want to go to a foster home???? I doubt it. She's just testing her power and trying to be alpha mare and the social worker let her. But you have to feel sorry for the social workers. Underpaid and overworked and when they miss an abuse case they are fried. You do have the power though and she knows it.

El Indio Elegante

01-05-2006, 10:21 PM

something sorta like that has happened at our middle school like that. they locked a teacher in the room who had diabetes. It's been awhile but i think they had guns or they were threatning to beat everyone up in the room. The teacher eventually passed out and luckily everything ended up okay it's all around and nothing can stop it

Jane Hurl

01-05-2006, 10:29 PM

As is fairly typical for me, I find myself cheering on CarolU again.

BUT, I also believe that you don't HAVE to spank kids to raise good kids. What is lacking in this case is "responsible parenting"...and it has nothing to do with spanking. Kids are taught (or not taught) to respect other people at home.

Those kids should be charged with assault and expelled...period. End of story.

What CarolU didn't explain further is that teaching respect means BEING INVOLVED with the children. Not just being there to make dinner and make sure they're in bed at night. It means TALKING to them ... LISTENING to them ... being INTERESTED in their lives. They learn respect because they are GIVEN respect.

Jasfino talks about being abused by the kids she looked after in DAYCARE. See? That's the problem. Mothers who don't want to take the time to raise their own kids. Instead they plunk them in daycare. (And don't go after me on behalf of single parents. I was one. Being a single parent means you have to work extra hard to do as good a job as the women who can stay home.) I'll bet you just about anything that those kids are angry -- REALLY angry -- that they don't have a real mom.

CarolU was never spanked and it seems she grew up pretty well. My son was never spanked either, and at 26, he's doing just fine. As a matter of fact, my wise young son made a comment to me the other day that nearly blew me off my feet.

"Mom, the problem with the younger generation is that they have no honour. They don't settle a difference by argument or even by the use of fists. They use a knife or a gun. No honour."

"So, how do you think this younger generation came to be that way, son?"

"Oh, I don't THINK, Mom. I know. I work out here in Sherwood Park where all the parents are filthy rich. How do you get filthy rich? By working all the time. Both Mom and Dad. So, then what do you do with your kids? Give them huge allowances in place of doing stuff with them and hope they can amuse themselves with it. But, the problem is, there's only so much a guy can buy. Eventually there's nothing more he wants. Then he's trouble."

From the mouth of my babe. Honest.

baileyholc

01-05-2006, 10:31 PM

Terry Wallace

01-05-2006, 10:57 PM

Jane...you assume so much! ;-)

Son of Jane....so do you !! ;-)

Parents who both work all the time...are far from filthy rich..in my neck of the woods.

It is done out of survival neccesity...I don't buy for one moment that even the majority of working parents don't love or respect their children...and are working to achieve a goal of being "filthy rich".... more like both working to pay fuel, food, tuition, housing, car payments, insurance, health care, maybe even dog food for the dog.....

Maybe things are REALLY different in Canada???

DebbieS

01-05-2006, 11:32 PM

Around here, you can tell who's wealthy by which wives stay home - in most cases. The hubby makes more than both of us make together.

My son comes to our workplace after school and my daughter will when she's a little older. For now she goes to 'kids club' after school. My son went there for 5 years. It's a wonderful program. On fridays I take off early and she doesn't have to go. Well, this morning she asked if she could go on Friday this week (I guess they're doing something special). So, I get to work an extra couple hours tomorrow :roll:

My kids never get spanked but they HATE to be grounded (usually from TV or computer, going to friends, etc).

baileyholc

01-05-2006, 11:45 PM

My Mom was a stay home mom and my dad is a disabled Vietnam Vet. He stayed home untill he started hunting. Then he stayed in the woods. He still lives in the woods. So to speek. Mom went back to work when I started High school and has been working ever since. I work part time and don't work in the summer. My girls are with me all the time and I don't spanks them as much as I should. My little one should be getting a spanken every day. But, like some one else said. Spanking just teaches a child to hit. I usta bet the crap out of my sister all the time when I was growing up. And I believe that if I had not started spanking my girls they most likely would not be hitting each other now. My girls were one and two when their dad and I devorced and we fought all the time before our seperation. I believe because they were witnesses to these episodes that is why the argue so much now. Yes, when my youngest now 12 get out of hand and is slamming doors and screaming and everyone she need to spanked. And No I don't spank her. Inless her tantrum is just way out of controll. Witch is not that often anymore.

reuben T

01-06-2006, 12:05 AM

If you do it right, you can reasonably disipline a child, including reasonable use of a small whip, (my mom always used a thin flexible tree branch, light enough to not cause serious damage) without any problem. And if someone interfers (no matter what the athority they claim) you can threten them with suit for interfering with your constitutional rights. and if it went far enough you could probably actually sue them and win if the judge wasn't corrupt. although it may not apply to teachers.
I see only one hope for young people today, and that is if the parents will move to the most isolated location they can find and homeschool them.
There's a very high percentage of homeschooled kids running their own businesses, in general they are high achievers. I guess I'm aware of it because i was. I purty much made it through 9th, then got diverted to doing other things, took the GED when i was 18 with no preperation and got next to the highest score in the quarter. but then i never went back and got the diploma because they wanted a paperwork fee and it just never was convenient, it might still be in file but it's been 23 yrs. I never have needed it, and never will as far as i know. I'm independant and don't want to be hired by anyone, getting close to where I can hire other people instead. Probably done enough independant study to equal collage degrees in at least 3 areas, and I know a lot of stuff that goes far beyond what any collage teaches. Got started learning things 30 yrs ago when i learned to read at about 10, and never stopped.

Jane Hurl

01-06-2006, 01:07 AM

Terry, actually things are WORSE in Canada, if the standard you use is one of acquisitiveness. We take home a lot less of our money than you Americans do.

But ... what people WANT, and what they NEED, are two different things. I raised my son as a single parent, and my ever-lovin' ex never contributed a dime. I didn't have a high paying job either ... but then, I didn't have to have the newest car (drove the same Nissan truck for 12 years), didn't live in the biggest house (half duplex in a good neighbourhood), and didn't do ANY foreign traveling while my son was growing up. Every extra cent went into a fund that let him play hockey and soccer, take guitar lessons and leave a little left over so we could take a 2 week driving holiday in the summer. How far we went depended on how much was left over in "the fund".

Dinner out? Virtually never. New clothes? Are you kidding? I learned to sew. Me have a social life? Not a chance. I'd have to pay a babysitter in order to do that!

But not only did we get by, we were very close and loving. I'd do it again in a heartbeat ... and he's grown into a fine young man. The only thing wrong with him is that he doesn't live with me anymore! *grin* I miss him.

And when the raising was all over, I met my man ... have my 300 heavenly acres and all my critters ... and can travel if I feel like it.

In my mind, it all comes down to priorities (though, by the sounds of it, not in Baileyholc's case. :shock: Sometimes it's something more than just a lack of "good parenting". )

Abejita

01-06-2006, 01:07 AM

I am with Terry. At least in my area it seems to be either rich or work your butt off to get by.Mom works at Bookspan, they print and ship books. She was telling me about the people she works with who work and have kids and get no sleep and still have problems making ends meet..when you are making 10.00 an hour ( about average for 'unskilled labor' here) its hard..Both my parents worked full time jobs BUT they were also involved..we didnt own a TV until I was in 3rd or 4th grade..Mom taught us to read ..I could read basic stuff (Dick and Jane) before I went to Kindergarten..and I knew my colors and numbers..Kindergarten was boring except I got to draw a lot ;-) When we got to watch TV at my grandmothers it was after school before mom got home and it was Sesame Street and The Electric Co. I was probably spanked a few times ..I can remember one or two..and yelled at mainly.. Sometimes all it tok was a look. For some reason I just KNEW when I was bad and never would have thought of attacking a teacher or any elder..
What about video games and movies etc. Do you think the violence in those has anything to do with it? I never played any of that stuff..I dont know how bad it is .
I caught a little of Oprah today..One mother was complaining her kids didnt understand money ..yet she buys her daughter two louie Vitton bags..a Cartier watch..each kid was given a new car ( a lexus I think) I wonder how much real time she spends on her kids...

Jane just read your post..a few points..and I am not trying to be snippy..but I think sometimes people dont realize that America is quickly becoming a land of haves and have nots..
300 acres..wow here in my area that would cost..probably pushing half million if you found a farm in a farmland trust program.(you sell your building rights to a preservation group so it cant be turned into houses).if it was at all able to be developed (housing or worse yet shopping ) ..probably multi-million . A small less than an acre lot with a nice house can run 100,000 to 300,00 depending on the school district. I know I will never own my own place. Mom and dad have said if the sewer ever makes it out their way they will have to sell because they have a lot of road frontage ..even though they are way off the main road..they bought their acre from Dads mom ..She had 9 acres. Mom and dad inherited after she died so they have 4 acres now I think..mostly woods
How much we take home..well I grossed just under 24,000 this year..I took home just under 16,000. Plus we have to pay for health insurance if we are lucky enough to have it..many working families don't.

Cindy

01-06-2006, 01:19 AM

So Jane, where was your son when you were working?

baileyholc

01-06-2006, 01:44 AM

I worked a full time job up till 4 years ago. I worked while the kids were in school and then the daycare I worked for would bring them to the day care were they stayed till I got off. Then they went home with me. We did home work then went and play only if homework was done. While I cooked dinner. They ate and took their baths then bed. then the next day it started all over again. And in October of 2000 I started working as a school crossing guard. I love it. My Husband has a good job and even though my check is only for two hours a day when school is in. It pays for Our wants. Jim's check pays everything else. We have Basketball and Gutar and Cello witch I bought the insterments. My girls do not go without, in anything. Just me. I go with out to give to them. And that is what a mother is supposed to do.

Trail Rider

01-06-2006, 02:02 AM

Okay, I will add my 2 cents. I have a 27 year old son and a 25 year old daughter. If I tell them to do something even at their age I have no doubt that they will do it. Why is that? They know if I tell them to do something there is a reason for it and that it is in their best interest. They know I will not tell them to do something just for the sake of telling them to do it. This is different than asking them to do something in passing. I honestly cannot think of any thing I would tell them to do but I hope you know what I mean.

I did spank them when they needed spanking. I doubt if it was over a half a dozen time each (they would probably disagree). Usually it was for their safety. Kids need rules. They need to know what will happen if the rules are not followed. There is no argument or trying to convince a child to do something. You are not the childs friend you are their parent. That does not mean that you can not play with them and do things with them, but they have to understand when the playing is over that you are still the parent and what you say is law.

I also believe that blaming behavior on medical reasons is way over used. There is occasionally a medical reason but I think it is usually that the kid is just spoiled rotten and has never had any rules that were enforced.

You child needs to know that they can trust you to love them and to protect them. They need to know that you will do what ever is needed to provide for them. They also need to know that when you tell them something that you mean it. There has to be consistancy. If there is not consistancy then they are always going to push to see what they can and can not do. Even with consistancy they will try just to make sure but it will not be as often.

JMO.

CarolU

01-06-2006, 02:05 AM

Well, there you go...my mother worked. She was a commercial artist and took time from her career to have us, then went back to work. I started in "Nursery School" (they didn't have "Day Care" then) at age 4. My mother worked the whole time I grew up. In the sumer we were "latch key" kids...technically babysat by my oldest sister...who was all of 10 when she started "babysitting" us.

I can tell you that my parents insisted that we behaved in public and if we acted up in school, they ALWAYS took the school's side. There wasn't much worse in this world then making my mother mad (who poured on the guilt trips to us) or disapointing my dad.

But, what you are saying Jane is absolutely TRUE. My dad did our homework WITH us every night, they both took us camping, and fishing, swimming and hiking. When I started horse showing, they were both there. Always.

I grew up with foster brothers, and later had foster children (teenage girls) for several years. My brother and his wife ran the crisis home for the county. What ALL those kids had in common was that their parents just 'had them'...that was their sole involvement in "child rearing." They never went to PTA, didn't help with homework, parked the kids in front of the TV...that was it. One "parent" would lock her children outside all day and let them in again at dinner time.

Yes, the opposite also happens, where parents spoil kids rotten and the kids act up because they have no bounds.

"responsibilbe parenting" is in the middle.

And yes, there ARE bad kids even in good homes...but those are really pretty rare.

Hollis D. Gammon

01-06-2006, 02:08 AM

Hay guys, lets call a spade a spade

We yes ***WE*** are to blame for the current situations that are going on. So let's blame ourselves not someone else.

WE--- let a few take away the teachers right to spank
WE--- raised the most cane at the L league baseball game
WE--- sued everybody in sight for any trivial thing or threatened to do so
WE--- saw fit to say that same partner marriages was OK
WE--- used foul laungage in front of our children
WE--- allowed unnecessary murder
WE--- said capital punishment was not OK
WE--- said it was Ok to live with someone without being married
WE--- said it's not right to correct our children in public [spank]
WE--- said and bought into theres a better way than spank our children
WE--- said take down the Ten Commandments
We--- said no prayer at school functions
We--- said don't mention Gods name anywhere execpt in Church

AND the list goes on and on ---and yep there are those that will read this and say that a particular item above you don't agree with me---and that's your right----BUT collective all the items I mention plus many more just tells the current generation that what ever they want to do is alright

Now tell me where our young generation is at fault??? It's not them it's US. I repeat as loudly and strongly as I can they are not at fault
*****WE***** are.

Just remember that everytime you close your hand and point your finger at someone else, you have automatically pointed THREE FINGERS AT YOURSELF.

I fully expect to be shot to pieces over this post, no problem, I will not counter post to a single post. BUT the fact that you may feel so much freedom to go on the attack just goes to prove my point, its US NOT THEM

Done---not meaning to offend anyone just stating the facts as I see and believe them.

CarolU

01-06-2006, 02:17 AM

Hollis, I guess I disagree that ANY of those have anything to do with the situation that started this post.

It is a mater of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...not the fault of the courts, the schools, the gay couple across town, the lawyer on the hill...none of it. It is the fault of THE PARENTS that raised BAD kids. I totally disagree with you. I don't think you need prayer in school or a law that says schools can spank to raise good kids. It is up the PARENTS.

Whatever happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? Is it going to become a legal defense in the future...."I didn't know right from wrong because I couldn't pray in school?" (BTW you can have prayer in school...it's called PRIVATE school)

And if you think for one minute that any of this is NEW...think again. There have always been rowdy kids in school who terrorized teachers, kids killing their parents, the list goes on. There may SEEM more now then before...but there are more people now. There is more communication now...there is more studies of human behavior and there are more headlines now.

Nothing has changed. Human nature is human nature.

DebbieS

01-06-2006, 02:35 AM

Carol - so true. It's always been happening. It's nothing new...

I remember reading a story written by an older gentleman. He went to the one-room school house when he was a kid. The older boys (him included) would always be so mean to the teacher, she would quit after just a few weeks. This way, they wouldn't have to go to school - until the next teacher came. Well, they eventually got a big mean, burly man-teacher. He straightened them out AND the man telling the story says he will always remember him as a positive infulence in his life.

motorgypsy

01-06-2006, 03:14 AM

Rueben we taught in public and private schools and most kids are well behaved, learn what they are supposed to and go on to have a good life. What teachers need is support that enables them to control the few that disrupt the class. We usually had it but when we didn't we had a lot of other tactics we used that allowed us to survive. Yes there are some kids who really need to be home schooled if possible. ADHD kids will do a lot better with home schooling if the parent can handle it because they can drive you crazy. And honestly there are some parents who will do a better job simply because they are gifted teachers. Where we got really mad was when we would hear teachers telling parents not to get involved in teaching their kids. I'm sorry but the number one teacher of your child is you. If you are a lousy teacher than find a good one and take lessons and learn how. You're not born with the skill. You learn it. Don't have kids if you aren't going to learn how to parent. They aren't stuffed animals or wind up toys. Kids are very high maintenance.

Many many of our best students were latch key. Many were very poor. Most did not have stay at home moms. But you better believe most had involved parents who loved them and insisted on respect and a good work ethic. We taught from 1964 to 1999. The worst time - during the Vietnam war. I had a math class of 48 kids in one classroom. Kids came to class reeking of marijuana, under the influence of all manner of drugs and were constantly looking for an excuse to protest something. By the time we retired the kids were much better parented, the drinking and drugs were much better controlled and there was almost never any problem with fighting or weapons because the kids were kicked out of school for it. Kids are like horses - they will do whatever they can get away with and that doesn't change.

There are good kids and bad kids, good parents and bad parents, but the comment of the country becoming very much haves vs have nots is quite true. When we were growing up in professional families there wasn't a lot of difference in what we had and what the poorer kids had. Medical care was affordable even if you didn't have insurance. We had one car, our dad rode the bus to work, we had no air conditioning, one small TV, enough food but we rarely ate out. Now the difference between the kids of a professional family and the poorer families is huge. Computers, fancy cars, a couple of boats, eating out all the time, designer clothes, several homes, foreign travel, private preschools, tutors, good health insurance, regular dental care - these aren't rich kids, these are middle class. The lower classes have none of these. And now our governor wants to give everyone $150 back on their taxes. Does this make sense in a state that cannot even afford to fund preschool for the kids who need it most????? SIGH :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kerry W

01-06-2006, 03:43 AM

MG, She still test me like that and she tests her teachers as well, I have been reading alot on ADHD and I think she might be AD. Witch will explain alot of her behavior. Also, to top it all off her Dad is a manic depresent. Anyway, I have treatend to send her to live with her dad and she called him to ask if she could. I even asked him to take her for a while. He said No, his exact words were she will have it harder here than she does their. She still wants to visit with her dad.

Please don't wait to have her tested. Someone (a young woman) who is very close to me suffers from Bi-Polar disorder (Manic Depression). TOO often, these people self medicate by drinking. In this young woman's case it creates a violent temper..so much so, that she stabbed another girl in the back, and spent some time in the State Pen...seems the judge thought she'd make a nifty example. As a teen-ager, she was hard to deal with...and had a LOUD relationship with those she lived with...lots of arguing, hitting, sneaking off, calling social services on her parents. They took her to be tested, didn't like what they heard...which was the same thing the psychiatrist at the State Pen told them later, btw....and they did nothing but ship her off to live with her mother...who ALSO is Bi-Polar, and ALSO self-medicates with alcohol...with the same violent behavior as a result. She is currently on a better path, but I will forever worry about her going off her meds...just don't wait. The one I know is lucky, because she is still alive, and is doing better for now. Don't let yourself say "I should have...." :(

Jasfino

01-06-2006, 05:09 AM

I have to agree with Hollis. We are to blame and I feel sorry for future generations of children. Someone mentioned video games and I have to say I think they are a huge factor in promoting the violence we are watching explode in this generation.

Jane Hurl

01-06-2006, 06:37 AM

Man oh man! You can go all over the map on this topic!

Someone (CarolU?) said that you don't have to be a stay-at-home parent to be a good parent, and she's right. I wasn't a stay-at-home parent after my son turned 6. Broke my heart, but there was nothing for it but to go to work...and my son turned out wonderfully. But, as was also pointed out, it takes a lot of involvement in a child's life to do the job right, and I did that. I forfeited an adult social life in order to accomplish it.

Cindy, to answer your question, I took a job I didn't enjoy so I could be 6 blocks from home. That let me have lunch with my son every day -- EVERY day -- and I hired a sitter to come to the house and be there (for a couple of hours) so he could come HOME every day after school. And if he REALLY needed to see/talk to me at school's day end, he could either phone or jump on his bike and come to the office where I worked. I went directly home every day after work for years.

But, when I think about where the world is going these days, I can't help but blame Hollywood and the music industry for a lot of it. When I was little, our heroes were Roy Rogers and Lassie! When I was a teenager, the music of the day had lyrics like, "Love Me Tender, Love Me True". What are kids being fed today? Heroes are The Terminator and other killers. The rap music today advises kids to "Kill the _itch"! And don't even get me started on the sex that they are being fed at every turn!

How does a kid grow up morally if the hero of the day runs around killing people and talking with a gutter mouth? Who is s/he supposed to emulate?

When my son was young, he and his buddy LOVED (and still love) those stupid wrestlers. He got soooooo sick of hearing me say, "You KNOW that's all fake, don't you? You KNOW they're not REALLY hurting each other, don't you?" As a matter of fact, he told me he was going to see them about a year ago and, with a grin, added, "Oh, and yes, Mom, I KNOW it's still fake!"

So when do Hollywood and the music industry become accountable for their influence on morality?

Ginger

01-06-2006, 07:31 AM

ADHD kids will do a lot better with home schooling if the parent can handle it because they can drive you crazy.

Trust me, they make themselves crazy, too. Oh, how I wish I could share with you an article I recently found... I still might pm it to you gypsies- I think you'll get it. Not completely congruent with the topic here, but close.

Ginger

01-06-2006, 07:56 AM

Gah, I deleted it, never mind. For Carol's sake, I saved it, just to show I wasn't being shifty, I was just being frustrated.

I'll agree to disagree with Hollis and his beliefs. They are not my own, and they don't have to be.

Just three days to go....

Edit: Ok, I'm rewriting it.

What does same-sex marriage have to do with raising children? Why are you people so down on this all the time, but it's ok to vote "one of them" in an office and "let them" train/judge/buy/sell Pasos? Isn't that backstabby, especially when this person hasn't wronged you? You'd probably better avoid a LOT of people, then, so you don't get "gay germs".

I don't sit and picture you lot and your significant others having private interpersonal relations. It isn't my business, and I enjoy the remaining eyesight I have. I'd hope you wouldn't envision me involved in a similar scenario. Taking away a person's right to cohabit with someone unmaritally OR homosexually insinuates just that intention, if you ask me- and you didn't, I know.

I understand most of your sentiments and even agree with them, but I'll just agree to disagree on the rest. It's not worth arguing over. I shouldn't have said what I did, but hey- it's my nature. You should probably dissociate from me, however, because my "pro-gay radical notions" could be "evil" and rub off on you, you know, like sneezing expels demons...

Ok, this version wasn't any better than the last two. I definitely need to reclaim my hobby and SOON.

CarolU

01-06-2006, 12:32 PM

I agree with you Crystal...I know 3 gay couples that raised perfectly happy, healthy children. One of those children is a good friend. I know athiest families RIGHT NOW that have good, responsible kids that do well in school and don't fight with their teachers. One of those kids is a National Sterling Scholor.

Now HOW CAN THAT BE? If gay couplels, lack of prayer, courts, etc., are ruining the kids.

Guess what? It's not. It's the parents who park their kids in front of the VCR or TV or Game Boy and go do something else while that child grows up.

motorgypsy

01-06-2006, 12:37 PM

Why is your dance studio closed???

I only wish I had had my paso finos before I taught human kids. They have taught me a wonderful lesson in sorting the things you can change from those you can't and also a wonderful lesson in how to channel hard wired characteristics. They taught me that getting your ego involved in teaching is useless and counterproductive. They taught me that humor is cross species and a very powerful tool. All prospective parents should have to study horses before they undertake parenting.

We really don't want to know what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. We also don't want to see it in the mall or Walmart.

You can't be a good parent when you have serious unresolved personal issues.

Don't expect your enemies, your exes, your horses or your kids to play by the same rules you do - they don't. And you can't win if you don't know the rules of the game so learn them.

Kids do what you do, not what you say. Ethics and morality are taught, not built in.

Kids can't stand hypocrites.

Your word is worth more than a visa platinum card. Make sure your kids know this also.

Barbwire

01-06-2006, 12:54 PM

Sticking my neck out here, chop away if you must, but I think certain video games are actually good for kids to play. Case in point, my son will be 8 next month. He has a Game Cube and is allowed to "earn" time to play it by getting his homework done, helping around the house, and doing good deeds. When he needs to be punished for something, I always ask him what the punishment should be. His reply , "Ground me from Game Cube." Oddly enough, he will suggest for weeks, when I was thinking days. He is very hard on himself. ;-)

Garrett has one game in particular that he loves to play. It is an adventure game with a lot of reading involved. At first, he would ask me to read for him, but now he does it by himself. He reads aloud, and I am amazed at the words he knows. He is doing a lot better at reading in school since he's gotten this game. His teacher is amazed at his improvment since the beginning of the school year. He just needed to read about something important to him to encourage him to learn new words, I think.

Garrett has a handicap that makes it hard for him to run and play for long periods of time. He gets picked on at school because of his limp, and he hates gym because he has a lot harder time than the other kids. When the school has Olympic Day, he struggles so, it breaks your heart. You can see it in his eyes that his self esteem is suffering. When he has friends over, and they play Game Cube, he is a star player and is quite proud of himself for it. Playing the games, he is no longer slower than the other kids, he isn't in pain, and he has a good chance of winning.

I think the game has been a useful tool for my son to help him feel good about himself, learn to read, and encourage self-discipline.

motorgypsy

01-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Blaming video games for kids behavior when it's lack of parenting is just passing the buck. There is a ton of evidence that the right video games for the right amount of time is very good for you. It improves hand eye coordination, reading skills, three dimensional space visualiztion, the ability to multitask and much much more. The parent just needs to play the game with the kid to make sure it is appropriate and of value.

An example. Girls develop three dimensional space visualization later than boys. This causes them to have problems in subjects that require skill in this area. When I was teaching AP physics I had a young lady who was very motivated, worked really hard, but was having a very difficult time visualizing the problems. Her parents asked me what they could do to help. I said - Get her a Gameboy and make sure she plays it for 45 minutes a day for a couple of months and make sure the games involve three dimensional action like shooting aliens in space or something. To my surprise they did it, she did it and she passed the exam.

The automobile driving games are fantastic for senior citizens and kids to develop and maintain their driving skills. There's a ton of really great games out there.

It's like saying the internet is bad. There's bad stuff out there but the internet is neutral. It's how it 's used that makes it bad or good.

01-06-2006, 01:20 PM

You can't be a good parent when you have serious unresolved personal issues.

Don't expect your enemies, your exes, your horses or your kids to play by the same rules you do - they don't. And you can't win if you don't know the rules of the game so learn them.

Kids do what you do, not what you say. Ethics and morality are taught, not built in.

Kids can't stand hypocrites.

Your word is worth more than a visa platinum card. Make sure your kids know this also.
Kyle that was really well put. http://www.smileys.ws/smls/grinning/00000003.gif

Ginger

01-06-2006, 02:08 PM

It's closed for winter vacation. Now I'm stuck here until Monday arguing with Hollis, berating Earl's man/goat love, and I think I've managed to get to Edurne, too.

Either way, she was looking left out, so I figured I'd include her.

It'll be so NICE to get back...

BTW- J and I both, during lesson time only, albeit, me sometimes other times, dance with people of the same sex. There are some things you can't show a person, you have to back-lead or lead them through. So again, beware- all the rainbow vibes you might pick up from us could push out the dehumanized artificial anime violence wrought by cartoon figures drawn to resemble distorted nine-year-old girls with four-foot purple hair, scantily clad.

What's worse? Snow day today... I'm not having this. I'm taking a lot ofThera-Flu, feeding the brats extra hay to shut them up, and I'm going back to bed. When I awake, I won't care what Pat Robertson thinks, and I'm sure all gays and lesbians can defend themselves.

I love self-hypnosis wannabeism.

Edurne

01-06-2006, 02:15 PM

and I think I've managed to get to Edurne, too.

You don't usually, I am certainly usually on the same side on social/political views..... it was just that I was brought up by a very formal Spanish family, consequently some words or phrases in Spanish kind of make me cringe. I haven't been as desensitized as in English.
Cheers. :D :smile:

motorgypsy

01-06-2006, 02:28 PM

Words are weapons. We have to be especially careful in foreign languages. We once asked the clerk in a store for plastic manure instead of plastic wood in Spanish and wondered why we got such strange looks. We figured it out quickly and corrected ourselves and had a huge laugh about it later.

We had a very humerous incident with a German exchange student at our high school. He was asked in a history class what he thought about the Berlin Wall and he responded with the well known F word. There was DEAD SILENCE in the classroom. (Kids really are more conservative than you think) The teacher then explained that this is a word that is not used in the classroom or with people you don't know very well. He really didn't know that - it was just a word to him. :oops: :oops: :oops: :razz: :razz: :razz: