More history of the Puerto Rican pintos!

[Candice Burger]

I have stolen this post from another BB and with permission post it here:

Greetings,

It is good to be back in Puerto Rico and see ya all on the forum.
( still have tons of catching up to do too!)

I was just reading one of Gaztambide Arillaga's books,
He states that he was in charge of the Registro for the federation for some 12 years, and in his book he says that he PURPOSEFULLY erased some 10 or 12 horses from the registry... Most, because he or others claimed they were pinto, but others also for suspicion of carrying "Un-Pure" blood, and others for lack of info.

I personally found this apalling!!!!!!
It should never have been done.

If the pinto and suspect mixes, plus animals with incomplete info were found, they could have make a Special registry for them so that history would be preserved. But NOOOO He just went ahead and did waht he wanted in a time where DNA was not available.

Cuentas Claras Himself was said to have a "fake" pedigree, and as posted on the forum when DNA prooved his lineage to be correct they gave him that name, Wich means something like " Clear Acounts" ...

Now, What if this had happened durring Gaztambide's Rein over the federation when DNA was not available. Cuentas Claras could have been erased just for the unproven suspicions of the powerful.

I wonder if any record exists of the "Deleted" registered horses.
For all his work and comitment I really admired Gaztambide and his work. but this particular action was wrong.

Great to be back,
Jo-Ann

Cuentas Claras was accused of having Colombian lineage because of his brios and hock action. Believe or not there was a time where a horse with good rear impulsion was not considered PPR! Some breeders told me that a horse with "too much" ability to collect and keep the impulse was not considered "pure" and would be excused!

[Terry Wallace]

Well..whadya know! :confused :D :lol:

[Linda Y]

Boy, Jo-ann is right on that! That is truly appalling!! Suuuure makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[SandyMM]

It is common knowledge to 'old-ish' timers that pedigrees prior to bloodtyping and DNA were/are suspect - both obscure and well-known breeders went so far as to ask what sire a buyer wanted on the papers, claim the current hot sire was the sire of an unrelated foal, and/or lie about country of origin/bloodlines/purity - such as PPR infused into Colombian lines to regain gait, walking horse added for size, thoroughbred added for size/speed. I'd say the pinto issue would be the least of the problems on some registrations/pedigrees.

[Candice Burger]

:lol: :lol:

True Sandy. There is no "closed" registry of paso finos that I can find yet, but we all pretend that they are!

Long live "purity"!

The practice of falisfication is alive and very much well today.

[Terry Wallace]

It is common knowledge to 'old-ish' timers that pedigrees prior to bloodtyping and DNA were/are suspect

AND... some of those "oldish-timers" has said it was common knowledge that *some* pintos were also suspect as not being pure Paso Fino...

This kind of thing happened in many breeds....
that is why it often proves so hard to get to the truth of the matter!

[sporthorse]

:shock: chicken ege arguement agin eh/
It would go to follow that the pintos were exiled befeore registries were started as well as when they turned up in registered horses, Exiled would be like being sent to mainland USA to maybe later become spotted saddle horses even earlier timelines leopard genes . More into the forties and fifties ...later with servicemen from PR Ask Lindsay about her friend she used tio interveiw and actually chronicled stories by Barbara Pare(sp*)who had PPR stock in many American pnito breeders stock eventhough I am not sure if they were pintos. She owned or imported Flicka and Sinceray I think but I will have to ask Lindsay. The articles and interviews may have been published at one time also.Please forgive me if this info is not correct, but Canace you should see when you two can caht in person we live close enough by. :idea: come by and ride if you can. That is where conversations can be nicest ....on horseback.

[motorgypsy]

In the "olden days" color inheritance was also not understood well at all. For example not long ago a white thoroughbred foal was on TV (medicine hat really). Solid parents with minimal sabino. Nearly pure white baby. If DNA testing weren't available this foal's parentage probably would be suspect. This probably happened with regularity before we had DNA testing and the foals were considered suspect even though we now know you can have very minimal colored parents throw foals with lots of white. If you look at the old paintings of horses in Europe color was very common. It's very likely there were horses of many colors brought over and used as breeding stock on the islands. From there it was just the preferences of the breeders and buyers that determined what continued to be bred. So you know there were pintos and probably app colors in the foundation stock.

[Candice Burger]

There is a similar discussion over on pasopedigree under the PPR forum if anyone cares to look.

Jo-ann scanned some beautiful photos out of a book that shows the sabino coloration in Berber stock. Very interesting to see the phenotype, which I still see in PPRs and still adore very much, roman noses and all.

I have a very roman nosed filly from two horses that have either a straight profile or slight concavity near the muzzle but she is a throw back to her PPR heritage--only 1/4 PR and the source is about 5 generations back from best guess.

So, when we talk about "pure" I think what we really mean is historical preservation of genes that are rare in the equine population. We are truly blessed with a breed that stands against time.