Relgion and Politics [Archive] - American Paso Finos.com Forums

SQUEAKS

01-19-2007, 05:00 AM

Lori I think you do a fine job the way you are doing it and to start censoring things from a media standpoint is wrong.

However this is your forum and you are the "ULTIMATE DECISION MAKER". (and to think I thought God was male) LOL :D

I think that those who use the board should have a right to post their opinions, but not to a point where it slanders one or reflects on their religion or personal convictions. Once they have been notified that their post could use some editing and they continue to defame someone then do what you have to.

Sure some things that people post do not sit well with me, but it is their right to do so and that is one of the rights I like every American soldier fought for in every world war and Viet Nam and myself 25 years as a police officer. And it ain't over yet we are still fighting for freedom.

I may not like what someone posts but I will defend their right to their opinions. Because I am sure there are many on this BB that do not agree with mine at times.

A courteous warning to an offender should be sufficient If that don't work then "Givem All H@ll and let God Sortem Out"

Best of luck in your endeavors.

Bob :duh

Mellifluous

01-19-2007, 10:46 AM

I am of the mind that asking for prayers does not equal religious discussion. I don't think any heated discussions have come out of a request for prayers. I think a good many of us pray on here, we just don't all have the same views about religion. That is not a problem.

When people come on here and try to convert people or start preaching, that is when the religious discussions can get not so fun.

I agree with Teevo on this one.

Abejita

01-19-2007, 10:48 AM

I do not think its possible to keep it out..Take for instance the Horse slaughter bill discussions...That is a very important and very heated topic that concerns us..
If we attempt to keep these two topics out of our discussions we would be trying to live with a 'Pollyanna' attitude and well being fake makes me ill ...If we attempt to put them in their own forum..well after awhile there would be very few topics left under other headings.
If it gets outta hand..delete the posts..lock the topic.
And unfortunately No many times we cant just get along.Its called life. BUT if you notice there is no one here who purposely attacks someone on their every post ..THATS when it gets to the point of nastiness..(I have seen it once or twice..but not consistantly

Terri

01-19-2007, 12:31 PM

I agree with everything Bob said. Thank you Bob. It is not what we disagree about, but how we go about disagreeing that matters. Stating your opinion that is informed by a world or religious view that is different than others is not evangelism. To serilize your opinions from those viewpoints, un-anchors it from its moorings. But to disagree with someone's political or faith based views does not give anyone the right to ridicule it or stereotype the person expressing those views into some type of Caricature. I am a religious conservative (in general) in a state that just can't get any bluer. If I am to have a social life at all I need to respect others opinions despite the fact they disagree with my own. I am often on the other side of the political fence from some very close friends of mine. We lost a friendship with another couple over just this issue. Oddly enough, I agreed with the couple politically. I could not stomach they way they ridiculed my other friends, who I did disagree with, on a political front. We are still good (best?) friends with the 2nd couple and can discuss issues. Just when it gets to the point emotions get high, we agree to change the subject and turn these seemingly insolvable problems over to God (He is better equiped to deal with them anyway). We cannot change each other minds by raising the shrillness level nor can we solve the worlds problems at my kitchen table. And friendships are to important to waste.

As for evangelism, I've seen that go both ways. Just because you aren't a Christian doesn't mean you also haven't tried to "shove your belief system down everybody's throats".

Terry Wallace

01-19-2007, 12:34 PM

For me... I voted to keep religion & politics off the site...
WHAT is it doing here anyway? If you want to talk politics and religion...go to a website for politics or religion.

Seems like every time a religious or political topic is posted...it goes to heck in a handbasket in short order.

I posted a thread to try and discuss global warming...which WILL affect your horse keeping abilities sooner or later...and it was quickly turned into a "lets point the finger at Al Gore" thing....

For me, I don't care what your religious or political beliefs are...they are YOURS... so keep them that way!

This IS a horse BB ...right? :lol: :lol:
Happy Friday everyone!! May the HORSE be with us today...

Terri

01-19-2007, 12:51 PM

But that is the point Terry, there are lots of things that affect our horses. 1) yep - gobal warming 2) Minimum wage - particularly for big barns that employ workers 3) Immigration - know any big barns, particularly down south that employ undocumented workers?

We should be able to discuss things things as grown ups without name calling, stereotyping or ridiculing or shoving our beliefs down others throats. But, it is also impossible to discuss hot topics and leave our "world view" at the door.

Edurne

01-19-2007, 01:05 PM

As a foreigner I find the evangelical posts to be very interesting and an insight into an America I might not otherwise meet. I think that asking for prayers, is in itself a prayer.... what I do find offensive is when those requests are made of only "christians", which in itself continues the exclusivity of thought which is the basis of war and hatred.

Also very interesting to me is the evangelical based writing from a person who was concerned on first meeting me a "buddhist" that I might try to convert her. Buddhism has no interest in converting anyone. If I were to tell you stories of the protector gods, Mahakala etc., you might all find it as way out as the Book of Revelations, which is now on my reading list. I don't remember much emphasis on it during my very catholic education.

Certainly, my practise will colour my political thoughts, will colour my attitude toward others and my way of being in the world.

I did join this board to find out about Paso Finos - little did I know I would find out more about people.

Terri

01-19-2007, 01:12 PM

Also very interesting to me is the evangelical based writing from a person who was concerned on first meeting me a "buddhist" that I might try to convert her.

Interest! I am not concerned about others that may try to "convert" me, I stand firm in my faith and am not afraid. I am more than willing to discuss the faith traditions of others. None of us should be "afraid".

CarolU

01-19-2007, 01:18 PM

Well, I agree with Terry W on this. And that is also how I voted. I have been on these boards for almost 10 years now. All these fights go the same way. Yes, some discussions have implications about horses, some horse dicscussions, like NAIS, include some politics. When that happens naturally, it happens. But when people come on here and post very provactive statements and then EXPECT everyone to agree with them, and scream "religious persecution" when someone doesn't, that is what is not needed on here. These discussions have chased many people away from the boards, not daring to post. And there are plenty of people who agree - they are just afraid to say so because of the "lynch mentality."

You can't have a "discussion" on such an emotional issue. Religion is somewhere deep in people's core. No one is going to change another's opionion on it, so why have it here? It quickly escalates into an arguement.

And I agree that asking for prayers is not a religious post.

Edurne

01-19-2007, 01:40 PM

if it isn't fear that escalates these discussions into personal attacks - what is it?

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 01:50 PM

if it isn't fear that escalates these discussions into personal attacks - what is it?

Now we are getting somewhere.....

I think I am most upset b/c I know what lies beneth the surface of these so called debates. :roll:

If it was just good ol fashioned discussion...that would be one thing. But it seems there is always something personal.

Kerry W

01-19-2007, 01:55 PM

Anything we discuss on this board is going to be of a personal nature. What bloodlines we like, personally. What feed we use, personally. What sort of healthcare we give, personally. We look at the entire world through our personal filters. There is no way to take the personal aspect out of any discussion, here or elsewhere.

Edurne

01-19-2007, 02:03 PM

I personally love open discussion and debate; learning other's viewpoints, learning about other's spiritual practises and beliefs; political discussion...... well I'm sure I have posted that I was raised in a political family where the main topic of conversation other than food was and probably still is politics. Europeans (where the most of europe was catholic) have reached a secterian political point of view.

I recall that most of the pre-election conversations on this board were rife with religious viewpoints. I think that it is most important to keep an open mind and allow the expression of such (even if it is baffling to some of us), so that we can understand what is happening in our country. We will never understand "other" if we don't allow the "other's" viewpoint to be expressed.

we on this board are a microcosm of the world - let us not start wars.

CarolU

01-19-2007, 02:03 PM

Oh, I agree there Kerry, we are very passionate about our horses, as well we should be. I don't think that THAT is what Lori is referring to.

But sometimes there is a history, bad business dealings, horse deals gone bad, etc. and those often fuel the personal attacks.

To be honest, I don't care about the politics, politics can change with the issue. But I sure think religion has no place on here. There are religious boards for it, we even tried to confine it to religious threads and that didn't work.

Kerry W

01-19-2007, 02:14 PM

I see what you are saying Carol, but those underlying things will surface in other topics...even if there is no political or religious content on the board at all. They'll just go after one another in other types of threads. That's why I voted for "No, I think we will still argue about the same stupid stuff no matter how many forums we have". :lol:

Backinthesaddleagain

01-19-2007, 02:20 PM

I am a newcomer to this group and don't know anyone personally but it is very obvious to me that there are some serious underlying issues between some of the board members. I once had a boss that I did not agree with on certain issues inside and out of work. We had an arrangement that when things got to a certain point where nothing constructive was coming from the discussion, we politely agreed-to-disagree and that was the end of the issue. There were no hard feelings on either side...if it was a work issue, he was the boss and we did it his way with my full support. If it was personal, we just knew that there were things we would never agree about and did not try to bring the other person around to our way of thinking.

I also cherish the freedom to have these types of discussions but truly cringe at the nasty tones that permeate some of the posts.

Margie

Edurne

01-19-2007, 02:32 PM

I agree with you Carol that the mix of politics and religion is not necessarily condusive for open discussion - but I stick to my viewpoint that it appears to be endemic to American culture - and is therefore bound to come up in our small society.

If the personal attacks are based on personal history of bad horse dealings etc., then once again, I will say that they are based on hatred.

What was it Lori - that you think is the underlying cause?

Mellifluous

01-19-2007, 02:34 PM

Hmmm, interesting.

I have been a little more argumentative than usual lately so I guess I am one of the more guilty parties as it relates to these topics. I try not to get nasty with my tone but have realized that others percieve it to be that way. Nothing I am saying is because of anything personal or any underlying relationships. I haen't had any negative dealings with anyone that I have "argued" with, I just like to argue here lately.

Like I said on another thread, I will stop it. I will follow my old practice of typing it up and then deleting rather than posting. From here on out, i promise to be Pollyanna. I will get rid of the flying spaghetti monster if that is bothering people.

Fuego

01-19-2007, 02:44 PM

I've been boarding at a large facility since Sept. A very busy place with lots of diversity in the people. Aside from numerous horse owners, there is also many students that take lessons on the farm horses.

I have yet to see, hear, or hear of, any arguements about religion or polotics.
Why is that? Probably because people don't discuss their personal religion or polotics at the barn..... but lots of friendly talk about horses and life in general.

CarolU

01-19-2007, 02:47 PM

Well Mel, I'm not going to do that. I have refrained from posting anything political or provacative for some time. But, if someone else does, I won't hesitate to call them on it - even though it often seems I'm the only one who dares to.

But, if the decision here is to say it's "okay," then "gloves off." If it's good for the right, it's good for the left.

SandyMM

01-19-2007, 02:51 PM

I will get rid of the flying spaghetti monster if that is bothering people.
_That's_ what that is.... thanks for the info! ;-)

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 02:52 PM

If the personal attacks are based on personal history of bad horse dealings etc., then once again, I will say that they are based on hatred.

What was it Lori - that you think is the underlying cause?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

There is a lot of personal history between many folks on the bb. Some good some bad. And sometime it just comes out in other ways. :-?

Sometimes ppl just decide they don't like each other for some reason or another. Sometimes, ppl get offended by someone who doesn't even know they offended the other person, etc.

I think a lot of it is that we (humans) get overly sensitive sometimes.

And of course there are some ppl who cannot agree to disagree, or must always have the last word. :roll:

Backinthesaddleagain

01-19-2007, 03:16 PM

My point exactly....why does it always come down to one side against the other? I just don't get why there always needs to be some type of head butting. That was my reason for assuming there are some past issues.

I am about as far right as you can be but I know I can never change someone over to my way of thinking on this board, nor would I try. I really enjoy learning about Pasos and about each of the board members life through the posts but I really don't care to read the sometimes hateful responses that go back and forth.

I have learned that each of you care about your families, animals and communities and that is great. If someone asks my opinion about something I will gladly give it but I'm not going to lay-in-wait for that perfect opportunity to get on my soap box.

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 03:20 PM

PasoVicki

01-19-2007, 04:47 PM

I didn't cast a vote because my choice wouldn't be any of the above.

I don't think you can completely eliminate political discussion from the board, because we can't discuss things like NAIS or the Horse Slaughter Bill without political overtones. I also see nothing wrong with prayer requests, which are really nothing more than pleas for emotional support in difficult times. No matter what a person's religion (or lack thereof), that person should be able to offer and/or receive comfort without causing arguments. I don't even see a need to eliminate political humor or blatantly religious threads as long as they are labeled just that, so reading them is strictly voluntary and no one is being blind-sided.

What bothers me is when, in the middle of a horse-related discussion, someone suddenly gets up on a soap box and starts spewing his/her own personal religious and/or political views in a way that *has* to be intended to "convert" others to his/her way of thinking or to ridicule anyone who doesn't want to be converted. Even going back later and changing the thread title to reflect the new content doesn't help -- once I'm following a horse-related discussion, I don't think I should have to "give it up" just because someone else has decided to hijack it. I don't start those kind of discussions, but when someone else forces the issue in that way, I don't think I should have to sit here meekly during the religious or political lecture.

So my vote is -- keep religious and political discussions in well-marked threads intended for religious and political discussion, and don't allow the hijacking of other threads.

Carol Nelson

01-19-2007, 04:59 PM

No, I think we will still argue about the same stupid stuff no matter how many forums we have.

Sorry...that's really the way I feel. Don't bother taking up space, Lori, because it's something that can never be resolved. No one is going to change their basic personal beliefs at this stage of the game. And I don't believe they should. But I also don't believe they should impose their beliefs on others...no matter WHAT they are.

There's always going to be arguing about something...especially at this time of the year...and it seems just a stern word or two from you nips it in the bud...so sorry, dear, but you're stuck with your job! ;-)

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 05:07 PM

LynnG

01-19-2007, 05:21 PM

Lori, it is about personal choice people make... we are used to free speech in this country..which contributes to that... personal choices. Those who chose not to get into political and religious debates on public forums... just don't. While some seem to enjoy the hashing it out, I would prefer to discuss horse related topics, and keep the politics and religious comments out of it...when non-horse related. That is simply my choice. I personally don't have the time or want to expell the energy to even go there in that direction.

If others do, that is their choice, UNLESS you say so...since it is your site.

;-)

Kerry W

01-19-2007, 06:04 PM

*sigh...I know....I just have to make you guys think about it sometimes. I already know the answer.....but I still have to ask the question. It's a process. ;-)

:roll:

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 06:23 PM

*sigh...I know....I just have to make you guys think about it sometimes. I already know the answer.....but I still have to ask the question. It's a process. ;-)

:roll:

Yup.... :roll: is just about what I think every time we go thru this. ;-)

Jane Hurl

01-19-2007, 07:41 PM

Am I the only one?

Come on! I can't be!

I don't want a relationship (and yes, I have a relationship with this bb) wherein I have to pretend I'm at a cocktail party going from person to peron, smiling, nodding, cocking my head politely to convey that I'm listening, never having anything that resembles a PERSONAL conversation! I hate cocktail parties.

What's so wrong with comparing different philosophies?

Sorry, Terry W. You and I usually see eye to eye, but not on this one.
Same with you, CarolU. You and I are very seldom on a different page ... today's an exception.
BTW, Edurne ... VERY nice posts on this thread. Kudos.

If this is turning into a cocktail party, colour me GONE!

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 07:50 PM

This place was never intended to be a cocktail party. It was intended as a place for new comers to the breed to learn about Paso Finos in a friendly environment first and foremost.
Just so happens we share a lot more than that here. And I love that.

BUT, there are a handful of folks that have a tendancy to get negative or in some cases defensive on certain topics.

Negativity does nothing for the Paso Breed, and nothing for my website, and does not create an environment for Newbies to feel comfortable. This is where the problem lies.

So what I'm saying is.....can't we at least be civilized about our discussions. Can we leave personal feelings out of it? Must we bait each other? Or attack each other over every miscommunicated post? It's very tiresome for me. And frankly, I don't have the time to monitor ya'lls arguements every minute. Sure, it would be nice to think you can all keep it above the belt, but we know you can't help yourselves sometimes.

Jasfino

01-19-2007, 07:53 PM

I agree with you Jane.

It doesnt take a genuis to figure out that there are underlying issues going on between various members and that is often when I notice the threads leaning toward the nasty side. It isnt just in the religious/political threads...but it is most noticeable there.

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 08:08 PM

Just a thought....the forums for Religion/Politics could be hidden.....sorta like Pound Busters....

Mellifluous

01-19-2007, 08:11 PM

I am thinking hard about backing off and taking a break for a bit. There are some of us that could benefit from a apf.com breather. It might give the newbs a chance to come in safely and not be influenced by negative people.

Plus, I saw on "the other site" where people are making fun of this one for not being pasoey enough.

CarolU

01-19-2007, 08:21 PM

That's because, on the other site, if you have a non-Paso post, they remove it.

I'm sure a break in the bb will come with a break in the weather. April

Jane Hurl

01-19-2007, 08:22 PM

Not being "pasoey enough"? What? Are they ONLY visiting "General Chit Chat Forum & NPR"? This is the place DESIGNATED for non-Paso talk, for crying out loud! All they have to do is go to ANY of the other forums (well, less maybe "Pound Busters" *grin*) and they can be Paso'd to death!

Yet another forum would not be my first choice, Lori. If there were a hidden political/religious forum, I'd have to put on a flack jacket before entering!

But now that I have high speed, I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world. Just not my first choice. I LIKE hearing PERSONAL stuff about folks here. I just roll my eyes when somebody starts pontificating and then shake my head when someone else snarls. Did your Mother not teach you basic manners -- like how to share philosophies in a civilized fashion?

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 08:25 PM

Well, one thing is for sure...I think this poll has the MOST voters ever. :lol:

Jane Hurl

01-19-2007, 08:31 PM

Ah HA! My point EXACTLY! People SAY they don't like this stuff, but deep down inside, THEY DO.

And lookie, lookie! What is it, 64%, who vote to leave things as they are? Yep, it's like a good marriage. Every now and again you gotta have a squabble just to clear the air!

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 08:36 PM

And lookie, lookie! What is it, 64%, who vote to leave things as they are? Yep, it's like a good marriage. Every now and again you gotta have a squabble just to clear the air!

I'll repeat myself again here....

*sigh...I know....I just have to make you guys think about it sometimes. I already know the answer.....but I still have to ask the question. It's a process.

We have this sort of topic about every six months. We almost always decide to leave things alone and just try to be more cordial and thoughtful of others. That is really all that I am asking. I just have to get radical sometimes to get remind others.

Mrs. E.

01-19-2007, 09:00 PM

Let me see. Out of 543 hits on this subject there only 42 votes.
How would all these people that have not voted, vote?

Pasogirlz

01-19-2007, 09:07 PM

Let me see. Out of 543 hits on this subject there only 42 votes.
How would all these people that have not voted, vote?

All those views include those of us who come back to read every little post each time one is made. Any time someone opens the thread, it is counted as a view. So each time I open it and read your comment and close it, it's a view. So it's not that there are 543 ppl reading it, there are 50 ppl reading it over and over each new post. ;-)

SQUEAKS

01-19-2007, 09:15 PM

I really enjoy this BB and everyone who posts things that help me. Sometimes, things as I said above, I may not like, but I am only one person and others here may like what was posted. We should all take the time to try to understand just what the person posting the message is trying to get across. If the end results are for the good of the majority then post it.

If I had to stop and get approval for every story I printed in my newspaper I probably would need to find a better career, as well as, never getting the paper printed each month.

There are times that important issues need to be discussed, I don't care what the topic. What we have to keep in mind is this question.....

"Will my response help to solve the problem or make me part of the problem?"

Ask yourself that before you hit the enter button and you will never go wrong if you can accept your answer. :D

JMHO

Bob :smackdown

My Pasos

01-20-2007, 01:15 PM

That is a very touchey subject. Everyone has their own beliefs & opions. Arguments start because of how a person is raised to believe something. From experience, it mostly is from not fully understanding something. For instance: A Church in Moore county sent out a news letter stating, when the Pope died, That Catholics have lost their God. :mad: :mad: :mad:

That upset me, being a Catholic, offended me.

I think more arguments start because of sheer ignorance and POSSIBLY the inability to research and try to understand.

JMHO :evil: :mad: :evil: :mad:

SQUEAKS

01-20-2007, 01:57 PM

Here is something that I received in an e-mail that might explain some problems. Although I am not a member of the organization that sent this out I thought it came at the right time.

+++ Gresham's Law of Communication +++

Gresham's Law of Communication says, "Bad communication drives out good -- when both are equally acceptable."

Rude, insulting, profane, and inflammatory discussions drive out those which are courteous and respectful.

Shouting and name-calling discussions drive out those that are conversational and reasonable.

Talking-without-listening discussions drive out those that are open-minded
and thoughtful.

We can see it on political talk shows. Hear it on talk radio. Read it on the Internet.

We spend our vices. And hoard our virtues. Because bad communication drives out good.

But there's a way to reverse Gresham's Law of Communication.

There is NO "legal tender law" of communication. You do NOT have to accept bad communication. You do NOT have to accept profanity, rudeness, shouting, inflammatory language, insults or any other kind of communications you find offensive.

Conversations and discussions are based on mutual consent. You can negotiate the terms and conditions of your communications.

How?

Tell people what you want -- and ask if they will do it.

* "John, I really want to talk with you about this, but when you raise your
voice, when you call me names, I feel insulted and talked down to. Are you willing to lower your voice and stop name-calling -- so I can carefully
consider your arguments and evidence?"

* "Janet, I know you're passionate about global warming, and I respect that. But when you call people who disagree 'deniers,' you are putting them in the same category as Holocaust deniers. Your language is designed to stigmatize and silence them. Are you willing to stop using the word 'denier,' and show us your evidence? Will you do that?"

* "Tom, I know you feel very strongly about the Iraq War. I want to hear you out. But when you condemn the character and motives of those who disagree with you, when you loudly insult and revile them, I find it almost
impossible to listen to your actual arguments and evidence. I need you to
stop insulting people who disagree with you. And I need you to calmly lay
out your thinking. Will you do that for me?"

You can explain what kind of language and behavior is and is not acceptable to you. Ask the other person what kind of language and behavior is and is not acceptable to her. You can negotiate. Work it out together.

What if they refuse to converse in a way that's acceptable to you? What if
they continue to engage in offensive language and behavior?

Tell them what is unacceptable. Tell them why. Walk away.

Requesting, negotiation, and walking away are three powerful tools for
creating good communications. For building courteous and civil
conversations.

You can use them with your family, friends, and co-workers. And with casual acquaintances and strangers.

And you will begin to make a difference. As will others who do likewise.

From such small beginnings, we can set in motion a social trend of courtesy and cooperation.

You and I and others can reverse Gresham's Law of Communication.

* * * * * * * *
Michael Cloud is author of the acclaimed book "Secrets of Libertarian
Persuasion"

Just thought it was kind of interesting

Bob :D

CarolU

01-20-2007, 02:06 PM

Great post Bob!!!

Monty

01-20-2007, 03:33 PM

That was perfect Bob - I totally agree with your last post !
:soap box I see no need for people to go off on religion or politics !
I had very open minded parents - they encouraged me to read about all the religions - so I read the bible,Torah and Koran - and others . What amazed me was in each and every religion - there was somewhere in their writings that equaled the Golden Rule! Do on to others ,as you would have them do on to you !
We also live in a country that allows us to have our opinions about politicians - Having been involved in government - including, as an elected official - I "really" get tired of people going off about elected politicians all being lumped into all being bad - yes there are some bad apples and yes ,some do things we really do not agree with - but there is NO need to get so nasty when giving a personal opinion about a person or event .
I am old enough to remember Eisenhower - so - did I like all the Presidents since him ? No - Did I agree with things each did No . But that is the best part of living in USA - we can vote for who we prefer ! That is the strongest argument we have - unless you care to quit complaining and actually RUN for an office !
I try to avoid religion and politics on BB's - so now I spoke my piece - I will get off my soap box ;-)

JennLM

01-20-2007, 04:08 PM

On another site Troy and I are on they had problems like this huge arguments and created a Politics section and it worked out great. It stays in there and people who go in there know what that subject is about.

I steer clear of it :shock:

Edurne

01-20-2007, 04:56 PM

The first lesson I learned as a baby Project Manager in Construction, Engineering & Architectural Design was........ stick to the facts. It is very hard for us who have logical ways of thinking to understand those that entwine metaphor, visions & prophesies with factual discussion...... but I will say that it is very important for us to understand and recognize this way of thinking .... otherwise we will never be able to understand and communicate with fundamentalists of any religion. If we reject and act out our aversion we put a stop to any development of understanding. No, I do not believe that we can through logic or good arguement "change their minds", but we must open ours to understanding their thought process.

Kerry W

01-20-2007, 06:04 PM

Controversy increases hits.

This thread is 4 pages long, as I am typing. Who posted it?

The J-Tail rule proposal thread...pretty much a guaranteed long discussion and/or argument. Who posted it?

Then we have Forum Leaders, who post a "funny" against the minimum wage increase, "wish" a miscarriage on someone...gee, I'm sure she was surprised that these things caused arguments. :roll:

These are just a few of the recent ones...last couple of weeks. So, you can imagine why I'm wondering whether or not you REALLY want us to chill. :lol:

If you do...might want to have a word with the staff, bein' they seed (or should I say bait?) the forum with "interesting" topics, per your request. ;-)

Jasfino

01-20-2007, 06:46 PM

I have noticed what you have pointed out about the forum leaders as well Kerry.

It's not only on religious/political posts. I thought they just liked to debate... ;-)

Barbwire

01-20-2007, 08:34 PM

Interesting observations, Kerry. It's kind of funny, when you think about it. When Lori first thought of Forum Leaders, she asked me to be one and I agreed, for about 2 weeks. Then, I asked her to remove me as Forum Leader, 'cause I got to thinking that I didn't want people to point and say, "I can't believe Barbwire said that, I mean, she's a Forum Leader and all. Disgraceful!"

I see I made the right choice. :lol:

Kerry W

01-20-2007, 08:36 PM

Same here Barb...I just didn't want to have to behave, when I didn't feel like it. I'm way too old for that! :lol:

Rusel

01-21-2007, 12:08 AM

Personally I enjoy the topic of politics and religion on the BB.. and I think it's in the right forum...NPR.... the most read forum on the BB...

Yes I believe many get carried away... but sometimes that's just being passionate about the subject....

But the real truth of the matter is that you learn more about the individual in how they represent themselves in their discussions than anything that is ever said about the politics. So I enjoy reading the discussions simply to see how people tick....

I know that I'm political.... I know that I am aggressive.... and I know that I am a right in your face type of person..... yet, HOPEFULLY, I don't try to persuade someone thru intimidation, and I'm still working on not persuading thru manipulation (used cause it's so much quicker) (but shows lack of compassion)... so.... my feeling is that we not even worry about the times when adults lose it and want to act like children....

I express myself on here honestly because I want the individuals who chose to call me friend to know who I really am.... not a facade to unravel later.... and the BB allows me to met and know people on a much more personal level than it would sometimes take a few years of actually meeting and knowing them....

And in reality..... when it comes down to it.... we are more like a large family if you think about it...... Who here would not put aside past grievenances to help someone on this BB.....

motorgypsy

01-21-2007, 07:16 AM

One problem is that people's perception of "rude" is different and individual. I know several people who by the standards of the society I live in would be considered extremely rude - but they don't consider themselves rude. They think they're being honest and that those who say things in a more round about way and try to be tactful are wishy washy and don't have firm beliefs.

Just reading posts about religion and politics tells us a great deal about the culture the particular individual was raised in and their perception of being rude vs being honest.

No I don't want anyone trying to convert me to anything and I was brought up avoid discussions on personal religious beliefs (not religions,) - and you'd better believe I resent anyone telling me I'm not "Christian enough" or "Kosher enough" or "Muslim enough" to go to heaven. But I do enjoy discussions about religions, religious history and things of that sort. And discussion on topics such as whether or not we should keep the "One nation under God" in the pledge, if done rationally, are quite interesting. (Many people don't realize that that phrase was not in the original pledge but was added in the 1950's during the Eisenhower administration.)

Anyone who directly or by implication insults anyone else on here for their religious or political beliefs rather than providing good counter arguments explaining their reason for disagreeing needs to rethink his/her beliefs because these people are coming across as though they have no idea why they believe what they profess to believe. My mama always told me that when someone insults you it's just because they can't think of anything better to say and to just ignore them. My mama was a smart lady.

Pasogirlz

01-21-2007, 02:35 PM

Just to clarify for everyone......the fact that I am not making a rule about discussing religion and politics does NOT mean the gloves are off...so go for it, bash or evangalize all you want.

It means, I don't mind if the conversation naturally turns in that direction and the thread is a discussion, not a war between members, or a way to annoy those you have issues with.

Please do not post threads that you know are going to provoke a war. :roll:

We are not keeping score here. Please do not cause me more moderating work....I'd rather be riding today. :evil:

Edurne

01-21-2007, 03:04 PM

now I know I will never fit in....... for the life of me I thought that the phrase "gloves off" meant that the fight was to stop.

going back to bed. :D

Rusel

01-21-2007, 03:31 PM

"gloves off" is actually derived from the European culture where gentlemen wore form fitting hand gloves.... The "gloves off" indicated that a gentleman had been insulted, removed one of his gloves and slapped the other gentleman which indicated a challenge to a duel, usually to inflick pain, but sometimes to the death...... Hence the terms "gloves off" and the battle begins

The English language is really difficult to follow, and American English makes it even more difficult.... I think that is why so many of the last generation have taken to spelling things their own way..... and I have to admit it is easier to understand in some cases.....

Recently I saw a sign that had the word "Happyness" and immediately wondered why they didn't spell it right.... Yet if you put the two words side by side "happiness" and Happyness" which one would seem more correct to someone trying to learn English....

Or if your writing your resume...... How in the world do they get the pronounciation of "res a mae" from "res ume".... geez and I was born here....