New flooring for the home...

[Heidi]

We want to rip out the linoleum and carpets to replace the flooring in the kitchen/dining, living room and hallway. Possibly the two bathrooms, too. Keeping the carpet in the 2 bedrooms and office. We are on a slab foundation.

I cannot stand the feel of dry wood on my bare feet! It is like fingernails/chalkboard to me. I'm shuddering just thinking about it. Because of this, I want to use TILE. I'm sure hubby will want wood floors.
I know wood is supposed to be "warmer" and tile is "colder", but we do have a problem cooling the house in the summer. Keeping it warm in winter is no problem. I can also use area rugs.
Anyone have any suggestions for how we can resolve this difference of opinions and both be happy?

[Kerry W]

Cork

[Heidi]

Cork
Cork? I'm not sure that will be economical with our houscats, hairballs and the occasional accident... :shock:

[Terry Wallace]

Heidi..I'm as the same crossroads... I need to tear out some carpet and do tile or Pergo...cannot decide... I do think that tile for a living room floor would seem rather strange..I love tile for walk-ways... but not really the whole living room... cannot decide! Both are about equal in installation "work"...

I'm just tired of carpet & stains form dogs & cats...

OH my KNEES!

[CarolU]

I have tile Heidi, and I wouldn't call it "cool" except in the summer. The rest of the time it is COLD!!! (kind of nice with Menopause, you can lay on it during heat flashes! ;-) ) Also, if you are in a humid environment (is there any other kind in Geogia?) tile can be VERY slippery. It's also very UNFORGIVING if you drop a glass or plate.

But tile is beautiful and you can have a lot of fun with it and be very creative. Look through LOTS of catalogs and books and pick some fun stuff. Look at resturants and the type they have for high traffic areas.

Some things to think about are to get a surface that isn't shinny, so it doesn't show foot or paw prints ten minutes after you've mopped it.

I like a broken pattern with animals so it doesn't show the dirt or hair. Speaking of dirt, try to match the color in your floor, so it looks cleaner, longer (that trick works with carpets too).

It is not hard to do yourself, take the course at Home Depot on it. But, do one room at a time or you'll get tired and sloppy, and once it's down and set, it's down and set. Seal the grout as fast as you can after it sets. Wear gloves and invest in knee pads! You'll get sore. Also rent a tile cutter if you don't own one. It's a bugger and you waste a lot of tile trying to trim with nippers.

When you're tiling a flat surface (harder on the verticle) remember that you not only have to make the lines even up/down and sideways, but dept too. Always stand back and look, you may have to add more grout to raise a low tile, or take some away to lower a high one.

Have fun!!! Post pictures.

[Heidi]

Kenny wants wood for "resale value" I just want something that won't make my skin crawl to walk over. I cannot help but think that tile would be much easier to clean and disinfect than wood. What if I miss a pee-spot and the smell saturates the wood?! Tile and grout can be sealed to prevent that from happening, IMO.

[Carol Nelson]

Here is my house in New Mexico. It was tile floors throughout, except for the bedrooms which were carpeted.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/36931LIVING2.JPG

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/36931LIVING1.JPG

This is the real Saltillo tile...not quite the old stuff because this is made in pressed molds but the same basic tile.
I LOVED it. It takes A LOT to seal it...I believe they put about seven coats of sealer on this because it just drank it up...but once it's on there...it's virtually indestructible.
BUT...cold it is. I would not have tile floors in any but the warmest climates. This was on a concrete slab, and believe me, in the winter you did not want to walk barefooted very long on this floor.
But it was easy to clean...I just oftentimes used plain water...or Murphy's Oil Soap, same stuff I used on my woodwork...and if it got dusty, just a dry mop or a damp floormop would do the trick.
I ran this tile throughout the living room, kitchen, and onto the patio outdoors...

[Heidi Sather]

I used to sell flooring, and my son installs it. I think carpet is one of the most disgusting things ever... it is like a giant filter that absorbs everything imaginable and can never be truly cleaned. Most people with allergies or asthma will find they breath easier once they replace their carpets with hard floors. I love both ceramic tile and hardwood flooring for their beauty and durability, but each will suit individual homes and homeowners in different ways.

In my opinion, the biggest drawback to ceramic tile is that it lasts FOREVER (if installed properly). I always used to tell people that before you purchase ceramic tile be sure you REALLY like it, because once it's in, you'll not need to replace it. I've actually had people choose another type of flooring because they LIKE to change the look of their home often.

Traction - If you're installing in areas where people will have wet feet (entrance areas, bathrooms) use smaller tiles so there will be more grout lines for added traction, and don't use a highly glazed tile in areas like that.

Temperature - If you are concerned about tile being cold, there are heat cable systems that can be installed into the mortar used to set the tile. Personally, I don't feel that the ceramic tile floors in my kitchen/dining room are any colder than the wood floors I have in the living room and bedrooms.

Pet damage - If you have indoor pets, I would definitely go with ceramic. My brother's Saint Bernard taught him that urine-damaged hardwood floors aren't fun to deal with. The urine runs into the cracks between the wood strips and you can never get rid of it unless you replace the damaged boards and seal the subfloor underneath. Each time the humidity rises, the salts in the urine attract moisture and cause the board to swell (and smell) again. Likewise, you MUST be sure to re-seal the grout lines of ceramic tile as routine maintenance. How often it needs to be done will depend on the amount of traffic on the floors. If properly sealed, moisture will "bead up" for easy clean-up; if not sealed it'll soak in. It's very easy to do, but from past experience I know that most people don't do it and wind up with stained grout lines.

Resale value/Durability - In my area, hardwood floors and ceramic tile have about the same resale value and cost is about the same. However, hardwood is much easier to damage... any kind of fluid spilled will cause boards to swell and warp, and anything heavy that's dropped will gouge and scratch it. I've even seen the cheap brands of hardwood scratched up by small dogs with tiny sharp claws that the owners didn't keep trimmed. Yes, if you drop dishes on tile they will probably break, but it's easier to replace the dish than the flooring in most cases. If properly installed it is very rare for a tile to break or crack, but if that should happen, it's a much easier repair than hardwood.

Laminate flooring is a less expensive version of hardwood. It gives a similar look for alot less money. It won't carry the same resale value as true hardwood flooring, but if resale isn't an issue for you, consider it a strong option. It is more durable than wood because it doesn't gouge or scratch as easily, but is VERY easy to damage with moisture. And unlike hardwood, the swelling in the boards caused by moisture won't go away. Once moisture causes laminate flooring to de-laminate, there's no fixing it. Also, because the laminate boards are all inter-connected, the moisture will spread far beyond where the spill actually occured.

If you decide to go with ceramic tile, choose a dark grout color, especially if you have pets and/or small children. If you select a light colored grout, be prepared to clean and re-seal it several times a year to prevent stains.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Hope the information is helpful.

[lalecl]

I understand why you are nervous about tile but i had carpet throughout, then changed to wood flooring, and let me tell you as soon as i could afford tile tile it is!!


i had the same concerns about a tile living room so i started paying attention to what others had and now i have tile every place except a couple bedrooms

we even tiled our bedroom

nice comfy soft area rugs are great and sooo changable when you want, like for holidays, or moods, easy to wash

i have two large area rugs and when i want them washed i take them lay them out on our flat bed trailer which is 7x16 and power wash them then let them air dry in the sun or shade on a good warm day, so easy!

if you do not have a power washer take them to the car wash. works great

easy to clean i simply sweep or vacum them damp mop if i need to and do a good mop for holidays or specaial occasions around here

they come in so many colors

[Heidi Sather]

Another factor to consider is your subfloor. If it is nice and level, any kind of flooring will go over it easily. If it is uneven, it will need to be fixed before anything can be installed over it. Many installers don't make this clear to people up front, then the people go into cardiac arrest when their bill is much higher than they expected. If you choose ceramic, the general rule is the more out of level the subfloor is, the smaller tile you should use. Large tiles over an out-of-level surface are an installer's nightmare.

[Linda Y]

Our little house had very old linoleum tiles in it...the kind they put in schools. It was not practical to rip them up, and we are po' folk. So, we opted to put in laminate floor. It is fantastic. REAL easy to clean, spills mop right up, dog toes don't hurt it. Only drawback is that it is a little noisy with dog toes. But I think they have different backings now that help with that. We put it in ourselves, and it is fairly easy. My next project is tiling the bathroom.

[Terry Wallace]

If you choose ceramic, the general rule is the more out of level the subfloor is, the smaller tile you should use. Large tiles over an out-of-level surface are an installer's nightmare.[quote]

Good tip Heidi..I will have to remember that here in the cold, soil heaving country!

[Pam M]

I have Mexican saltillo tile (similar to Carol N's) throughout my common rooms and I LOVE it! It doesn't show dirt, is easy to clean and looks great. I seal it twice a year and that is labor intensive - takes a full day. It's also a bit tougher to install than ceramic tile but it's well worth it. I have indoor animals, including frequent visits from the pet goat, and they don't damage it at all. And the occasional "accident" is easy to clean. In fact, it's so easy that I just do my re-potting indoors now because I don't have to worry about getting dirt on the floor! I also like the fact that, unlike carpet, I can actually see what's on my floor and clean it up.

[Terry Wallace]

Is there any kind of ceramic floor tile that does not have to be sealed?

[pnalley]

We installed laminate flooring about 1 year ago. It was easy to install & I love the noise the dog toes make :lol:
But as stated before moisture will ruin it.
We are working on our bathroom now. I originally wanted tile, but now I'm leaning towards what I call asphalt tile (don't know the real name) it is a 12 inch square and it is what is in schools & hospitols. It is darn near industructable from what I have seen.

Heidi any input on that stuff? It's nice having a floor expert in out midst ;-)

[Pam M]

Ceramic tile doesn't have to be sealed but the grout does. I don't know of any kind of grout that doesn't need sealing.

[Heidi Sather]

You can get other brands of laminate that are just as good as Pergo and much cheaper. IMO the click together laminate is MUCH easier to install and maintain than tile. BUT it's not as durable either. Early laminates on the market were noisy and hollow sounding when walked on, but they have solved that issue with many different underlayment options available. Uni-clic even sells a corkboard type underlayment that really works great to cut down on noise. Laminate is considered a "floating" floor. You leave an 1/8" gap around all walls, and the floor panels hook to each other, but not to the actual structure of your home. So, if you have a less than perfect subfloor to deal with, laminate will cost you less to have installed than tile.

How cold your tile feels will depend on your house. If you're on a slab, you may want to use the heat cable in the mortar bed that your tiles are set into. If you're doing floors on a home's 2nd floor, above another heated room, your tile isn't going to feel cold.

Terry asked about ceramic tile needing to be sealed. Most tiles don't need to be sealed, only if they're very porous. Some tiles, especially if they're cut from actual stone such as marble, are very porous (which is why I'd never do my kitchen countertops with it). We did a shower install of quarried limestone for a client once. It was GORGEOUS but drank up a lot of sealer. The grout lines are another story. They DO need to be sealed to prevent staining. Most people choose a light shade of grout and wind up regretting it. Sealing grout lines is not labor intensive (especially if you make your kids do it). ;-) If you don't want to EVER seal your grout, you can either use epoxy grout or you could use sanded caulking. Both are more expensive than regular sanded grout, and harder to work with. If you're an amatuer, stick to sanded grout and sealer. If you decide you want epoxy grout or sanded caulking, hire a professional. It's difficult stuff to work with, and every time I've used it, has required the use of somewhat colorful language. :eek:

pnalley - I don't know exactly what product you're talking about... maybe VCT (vinyl composite tile). It is mainly used for commercial installations. Have rarely seen it in a home. I do know it's very fussy about what's underneath it. Your subfloor has to be smooth as glass before the tile is glued down. Any cracks, seam, gaps or microscopic pebbles on the floor at the time of install will show through those tiles. I haven't gone flooring shopping in a while, so maybe there's something new that's similar to the VCT I'm talking about but not as fussy about the subfloor underneath it. I'll ask my son and see what he's got to say.

[Heidi Sather]

Forgot to say that most places with that kind of flooring use a floor burnisher to keep it cleaned and polished looking. That tile will stain unless it's kept waxed and clean. Similar to vinyl flooring, it'll discolor if contacted by any petroleum products... oil, rubber. Although no one tells people this till it's too late, many rugs have a rubbery backing that will discolor vinyl floors.

[CarolU]

I should add something about vinyl, being that I am hypersensitive to chemicals. When I they did my vinyl flooring and windows, and even when I did vinyl wallpaper, I had to move out of my house for several days. It off gasses for quite some time...like the vinyl interior of your car. I'm really not sure how healthy it is for the average person, but I sure know it is not healthy for me.

I think humans are safest with NATURAL products.

[hast]

I put in marble in our (the company's LOL) house in Saudi, since wood isnt' an option in the desert, and I absolute love it. It's beautiful, BUT ...it's cold. Really cold. We have tile in the kitchen and the marble is WAY colder, it actually require slippers. Tile has a tendency to chip or break if you drop things on them, marble doesn't. Although, if you choose expensive tile they do hold up better, but still chip if what you drop is hard/heavy enough.

Here's the only pictures I can find of my marble floor... it doesnt' show up very well, it's really alive and dirt doesn't show very well either. LOL
http://elaine.midgaard.us/saudi/cats/450/PICT2865.JPG.450.jpg
http://elaine.midgaard.us/saudi/cats/450/PICT2875.JPG.450.jpg
http://elaine.midgaard.us/svenne/500/PICT3380.JPG.500.jpg

[Barbwire]

What a cute little kitty! :D (nice floor, too)

[pnalley]

A friend of mine had marble floors in Florida. What a nightmare! It is so humid in the Homestead area, the floor would sweat. They would get so wet you couldn't walk on them, and since they were frequently damp they got dirty very easy.

[hast]

A friend of mine had marble floors in Florida. What a nightmare! It is so humid in the Homestead area, the floor would sweat. They would get so wet you couldn't walk on them, and since they were frequently damp they got dirty very easy.

Jeddah is located on the Red Sea and VERY humid, at times as humid as Florida (although I used to live in St. Augustine, not homestead, the humidity is still bad enough to compare ;-) ) and I have NEVER had a problem with the floors "sweating" or getting slick. It doesn't show very well in the pictures, but there are lots of little "flecks" in the floor and even though it's shiny dirt or footprints doesn't show AT ALL. I LOVE that floor -the only drawback is how cold it gets because the marble is so dense.

[Terry Wallace]

You can get other brands of laminate that are just as good as Pergo and much cheaper.

What would they be Heidi? This is my first journey into "flooring"...
What would you reccommend for pets...wherein if one "wets" in the morning while I'm at work, and it doesn't get mopped up until late day when I get home...so that it does not stain or distort...

HAST...that floor is gorgeous! I love it! Looks expensive...was it?

[Cam]

I just did one of those laminate "floating" floors in my kitchen. I love how it looks, it was quick and easy to install, and the price wasn't all that bad. It IS a little slippery though. I was told that I could uninstall it and take it with me if I move too. It just clicks together. So..I would imagine if a section gets ruined by pets soiling or otherwise, I could just replace that section. I seems to hold up with the dogs. I have 2 of my own and often doggy sit (I have 4 this week) and no scratches etc. It cleans up quickly with a damp mop. I don't remember the brand name. I just checked around at all the local dealers and picked the one with the cheapest quote. I can't remember if it has a 15 or 20 yr warranty. I didn't do the big stores like lowes or home depot. Probably even better prices and selections there.

[hast]

[quote]<snip>

HAST...that floor is gorgeous! I love it! Looks expensive...was it?

LOL, as I said, it's company housing ...I dont' know exactly how expensive, the company (hubby) paid the bill ;-) In Saudi, though, it's a whole lot cheaper than wood, that's for sure. LOL

[pnalley]

Hast,
I believe my friends house was on a slab (not sure it's been 30+ years). What type foundation is the house you are in on?

[hast]

it's on a concrete slab, which I think is the only way to build in Saudi. It isn't too uncommon to have marble there, actually it's more common to have marble or tile than carpet. ;-) I don't know anyone, new or old house, who have had a problem with a marble floor.

[Edurne]

I have vct in the basement, same grade as used as hospitals (left over from job) ceramic tile in the kitchen and a Pergo product in the bedroom. I had wanted to install marble, but was shot down by husband and daughter. If you are going to install ceramic or marble you may need to lay a concrete subfloor (comes in sheets like plywood) or 1/2" plywood to provide proper support.

We used the Pergo because we have an ancient diabetic cat with a huge (quantity) pee problem. I personally like the ceramic tile best. Don't find it cold - it's above ground level. Have had no problem with seepage of pee into seams of Pergo. Inexpensive, easy to install, and you have a brand new room within a few hours.

[Cindy]

Hast, we have that same marble in our master bath. You have good taste. LOL. We have it on the floor, shower and halfway up the walls. I love it too and have no problems with sweating or anything like that. It gets pretty humid in the bathroom too. :lol: