snorting and blowing

[pasoglide]

My 22 month old colt is very hot . When I am working him , like throwing the rope on him and under him to get him used to things touching him he stand still when it touches him but he blows and snorts . Is this normal for a HOT horse .

[Brigitte]

My horse blows and snorts when he gets scared or when he's nervous about something, maybe that's it?

[Hollis D. Gammon]

BLOWING AND SNORTING is his way of telling you I'll accept it from you but I really don't like it because "It's going to bite me or hurt me"

When he reaches the point he accepts it without Blowing and snorting you will have accomplished your job.

Being a hot horse has nothing to do with it. Sounds more like a nervous horse instead of hot dont confuse the two.

[pasoglide]

Ok Thank You . I don't know anything about HOT horses. So he should behave like any normal horse when it comes to training ? I thought if they are HOT they will always be jumpy .

[Brigitte]

Hot doesn't mean they'lll be jumpy. They'd be more energetic you can say

[finolover]

ultimo starts snortin, blowing and pawing when he's in his wanna go home mode....

[Terry Wallace]

Blowing and snorting can also be a "challenge"...just had a little episode of that this morning....

I turned five horses out to pasture, and my three year old stallion that is in a different pen, got all kinds of pi$$y over it and kicked and bucked and snorted & blew his "mightyness" directed at me, for NOT letting him out....

He blew, snorted, snaked his head, threw a kick my way (from about 20 yards away) and made darn sure I knew he was displeased with my actions.... My reaction to this is to throw my shouldrs up & out (make myself BIG)...and snort right back at him.... letting him know, that I make the decisions about who goes out and when... not him.! ;-)

[pasoglide]

OK so a jumpy horse isn't the same as a hot horse ? All the paso's I have seen that act up and are jumpy , I have been told it was because they are hot . Maybe I should be expecting more out of my colt. So will a jumpy horse always be jumpy or will he settle down ? This is his blood lines
Colorin de Casta and Candelora del BanBros
I'm just trying to under stand my boy.

[Hollis D. Gammon]

Whether he overcomes being "Nervous" will depend a great great deal on you his handler. If you are nervous handling him he will feed off it and be jumpy.

You will have to be firm and fair with him. Sack him out, throw the rope over him, over and over and over until he pays no attention, take him to investigate everything that bothers him. No rough handling [beyond what it takes to stay in command].

It will be slow and no he will never over come 100%.

It's just like people, if you were afraid of the dark as a child you probably are still a little apprehensive now in the dark and always will be.

[Terry Wallace]

HOT..gee, I hate that word... ! Especially when used as an excuse for poor behavior!! ;-) LIKE: He can't stand tied because he's so HOT, He can't stand still because he's so hot... He won't stand to be mounted because he's "so hot"...BS !!

Don't put up with that kind of behavior. It is mostly LACK OF TRAINING.
This can include horses who had been rushed through training..I see it all the time... back to ground work..back to establishing leader & follower....

back to more "quiet time"...one on one.... no rushing, no deadlines... You are throwing ropes at him too soon, too hard or too much if he is acting this way..he needs to go back a step, he's not ready for that. He is frightened...not hot. He is not trusting your movements... don't rush him, he's not ready to have the rope thrown at him, and he is communicating that to you... ;-) Make your rope much smaller, show it to him, rub him with it... let the lenght out slowly...over days.... be sure he accepts it before going any further.... Wether he gets over it will depend on how you handle it.

[pasoglide]

I'm not nervous handling him . He is nicely mannered . He has come a long way . He doesn't trust anyone else but me . I wear sleeveless shirts all the time so if I come out with a jacket or long sleeves he snorts and blows until he knows it's me . He is going to be fun to ride .

[Terry Wallace]

its not about being nervous... its about reading the horse. Yes, you can demand he stand while you throw ropes at him, this would be a type of domination training... and it IS usefull...however, if you are looking to make a partner of this horse, I'd want to be getting more trust. Be careful with domination type training on a nervous type horse, because of course you can MAKE him take it... but will it build trust in you or just make things harder for him to trust you...

You point out that he is even unsure of your shirt for example... he blows & snorts at a shirt... its a bit of a fine line, the intelligent horse will often take longer to win that trust...they question, they fear, they challenge... they won't be rushed (mentally)... they resent when they are. Thats when trust can be lost.

He is the exact kind of horse I LIKE !! Bring him along slowly..and you will have a partner of the best kind! ;-)

[reuben T]

wild mustangs snort with fear, (dear do the same thing but it almost sounds like a bark) it normally preceeds escaping. and mustangs arn't considered hot, more of a medium.
Yah, I've seen too much of blaming lack of training on being hot, to me hot means sensative and quick to respond to light cues. Although "hot" may take more skill on the trainers part.
The higher sensativity may increase the spookieness in some just because they're more alert.

[GeorgeGuns]

I'm with Terry - hate the word HOT. I prefer SENSATIVE. And I also agree these are my favorite horses - they challnge me to be a better leader, and the payoff is really great.

Some ideas.
-approach him as if you are on V-A-L-I-U-M. Say it slowly as you go out to him, over and over, like a soothing mantra, lol. Don't sneak, just tone yourself down, and gradually increase energy in itty bitty increments over a looooooooooooooooooong time. weeks, months, whatever.

- Desensatizing. With a horse like this its often helpful to let them see the object, as you hold it on the other side of you so you are between him and it. Hold the object in front of you, lead him behind you, so that in essence he is being helped to "chase" the object. This can really empower a sensative horse. Spend lots of days folowing objects, then with something he seems calm with, slowly bring it closer into his space. If he get even a little blowy, or tense, just move the thing back to where he ain't blowy - this may mean dropping it and walking him away from it! Do this with only one or two objects at first, over lots of time, give him a chance to learn that if you have something, he can trust that its not going to kill him. Eventually he may start getting curious! Allow his curiousity, but stay on that v-a-l-i-u-m. Spending a few mos doing this several times a month will really pay off. Do stuff like this until he is totally bored with new things, or at least not getting tense. If you are consistent and he sees that, he'll start picking up speed, and reacting less to new objects.

With the string or rope, make it small - bunch it up. Ropes look too much like snakes and he's programmed to go away from snakes. Ball it up and hold it while you use your other hand to scratch his favorite places. Work towards rubbing him with the rope, and eventually let it out so that you are just moving it over his body, respectfully. Once he is cool with that, you can start making small movements on the ground with the rope, not throwing it at him, but have it away. You can combine this with the above "chasing" exercise by bouncing the rope on the ground away from him so he is now chasing a wiggly obect.

Continue on like this and eventually add noisy object that move. Believe me, it will pay off. He may always have an evergetic outlook on life, but if you considerately ask his curiousity to become a safe place in his mind, he can become a dependable horse, and that sensativity wil be able to show as happy alertness rather than heated fear.
Hope this helps, its just one set of ideas - be creative, but be respectful of his instincts.

[Jasfino]

Blowing and snorting means "I'm scared" in horse language. My gelding does it when he is scared of something. Take your time and help him work through his fears slowly.

[Pasogirlz]

The gelding I ride Eclipse is a snort/blower. When ever you approach his stall and it surprises him he does it. He doesn't seem to do it when I ride him so much, but more on the lead.

[DSDECKERT]

My mare is a snorter too, usually it means "I'm not sure about this" - nervous behavior. If you are using the natural horseman methods, that's the best step to gain his respect. She still snorts at the stick and rope for the first few seconds, and then relaxes and says "oh yeah, this isn't a horse-eating sick/rope!"

Sometimes, when we approach a horse-eating Walmart bag on the trail, she'll even whistle!

[pasoglide]

That is how he reacts. I don't tie him when I work him . He will freak out and if I keep doing it he will settle down and walk up to me . He walks great on a leed and will go anywhere with me . I was just wondering about the blowing and stuff . I hope he will be like you yours and just blow and not react when I start riding him.

[finolover]

so, if ultimo drops his head, shakes it, snorts and paws the ground...with me in the saddle......is it fear??? or anger???

i've been told he will escalate to rearing and bucking....he's already backing us into trees and fences....no response to any cues, he's numb to heels , and spank..this guy is 13 yr.old and supposedly just started this when i seperated him from his pasture mate of ten years :?:
i bought him as a MADE trail horse...seen a thousand miles of different
trails and terrain..........
this sounds silly, but he's good natured about his actions...i mean he does'nt seem angry :?: :?:

it's not tack , head gear, or technique....he did it with the pro i bought him from, they thought they had it cured :-?

[Terry Wallace]

Earl...as I posted above....it can indicate fear, and it CAN be a challenge...a challenge to you from your horse...what you decribe is a challenge...what Pasoglide describes is fear/uncertainty.
Sounds like this is Ultimo's "warning" to you that he is about to "make a change"...

[Jasfino]

I am no expert but I would say what you are describing Earl is a sign of an frustrated, lazy, or angry horse. Its different than the blowing/snorting .. I'm afraid talk that they commonly do. Your horse is throwing a mini temper tantrum. You need to find out why or it could escalate.

[Jasfino]

On second thought.. maybe you should buy his pasture mate as well. He may be missing his good buddy. :D

[Terry Wallace]

"snorts and paws the ground".... that is a challenge! ;-) That is not fear! that is being rather BOLD!

What was done about it with his previous owner Earl?

[finolover]

What was done about it with his previous owner Earl?

they would get off and longe him , then get back on and go till he did it again.... :?:
it don't work for me anymore :oops:

[Jasfino]

If lunging doesnt work... could you get off and walk him? He may be what I call a "power backer" because someone made him back as a form of punishment. Now he has learned to back himself fast while under saddle thus turning this backing around to his advantage. He thinks.. I back real fast and Earl will dismount. Just a suspicion. Maybe he would do better if you had someone to ride out with for awhile. I wish you luck.

[finolover]

i tried walking him.....he won't pay attention..he gawks off and walks circles around me unless i'carry a short whip and use it,,,the rope shakin parrelli thing dont work.....if i lstruggle thru a mile walk away from the barn i can ride a mile back :evil:

[Jasfino]

http://www.meredithmanor.com/features/articles/drm/attention.asp

This is a good link with alot of good articles that might be of some help to you.

[Terry Wallace]

I'd not get off at all...and I'm no fan of longing for punishment... we never do that here. If it happens "in the saddle" it gets corrected in the saddle.

Have you tried giving him something else to do when he does this?
Can you anticipate when it is about to happen? Is there one specific place he does this? Or..does he do it any time he is wanting you off his back?

[Terry Wallace]

posted it twice...removing one.

[finolover]

giving him something else to do would only be back in circles.....and then he looks for objects to back up to to rub you off.....he does it going away from the barn and anytime he we stop to rest...no way to catch him before it starts....at a high fast corto he may go into a power slide, turn and back into a deep ditch or underbrush,,,my legs on the ground are gone but i have great balance ...when he zig zags at whatever speed
i've remained in the saddle....he pays no attention to a sharp whack across the rump with a braided whip hanging on the saddle horn..it's like he's numb and dumb.....

[Jasfino]

I dont know Terry. If a horse is doing something that makes you feel unsafe... its always best to get off rather than get hurt. It would depend on the the horse and individual rider really. What one person could handle safely on one horse, could be rather different with another horse/rider. Its always best to stay safe.

[finolover]

while stopped inthe saddle..he started the pawing and snorting..i jabbed him in the offending shoulder with the point of my boot, so he switched to the other side, i jabbed him and said quit sharply both times...to give him something to do i flexed his head..he mouthed my boot toe so i kicked him in the teeth..so he switched to the other side and got the toe of my boot in the teeth again....when i throw away the reins he stops backin..i sit there waiting him out and he starts the same crap again on a free rein.....i bucked him out once when he thought that might get me off, his next move was to rear..as o felt his feet coming up i planted the side of my hand between his ears..that stopped the rearing..so he then backed so deep into a multiflora rose bush my neighbor had to dig us out....

he loves to be around me in the corral and will mug you for yreats and he's apest when i'm trying to fix fences....i dunno :?: :?:

[Jasfino]

It sounds like to me he is setting up in a pattern.. and thats not good. It would be better to not ride him at all.. than to keep riding him and him getting by with all of this. If you cant gain some ground with him on the ground.. then maybe you could get help from someone who could work with you and your horse together. I have one right now that I dont ride.. because of a similiar situation. Its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel sometimes. I have been there myself.

[finolover]

you could get help from someone who could work with you and your horse
and the story comes full circle......i'm too far away from expert help and cant afford $500 a month trainers, :mad: :mad: :evil:
bout to quit forever :idea:

[Pasomom]

Earl, Didn't you just buy this horse not too long ago? like a month or so? Can you consider taking him back to where he came from and tell them to fix him or give your money back....sounds like from what you said earlier, unless I miss read it....that they "thought they had it fixed" Obviously they didn't and maybe would be willing to work it thru with him or trade for another horse or money back???

[finolover]

i can if i want to wait two or three weeks on a trailer...but this problem has to be fixed here on the edge of the trail., i live smack in the middle of
more trails than a man could ride in months..starting in my yard !!!!
the ranch has no real trails....its a show ranch
I"M TIRED OF WAITING..one ride at home in two years..with two horses...that just need to be rode as the old owners said.... :razz: i'm never buying another horse from a person that says that line :mad:

[Barbwire]

I say sell 'em both and get yourself a nice ATV.

[finolover]

hey banana .... SPLIT...try being a tree and leave :lol: :lol: ;-)
nd the bouncin poo sign is in poor taste :razz:

[cowboy ed]

earl, your description of ultimo sounds like a horse with a bad stifle to me. i have seen similar behavior before on more than one occasion, and that was the problem.

[finolover]

thanks i'll get him checked..but if it causes a limp...he has none

[Terry Wallace]

I have no problem "staying safe"....IN the saddle. I do not fear and am not intimidated by horses. If you are...then by all means leap off and longe.... after all...the horse WANTS you off.....

Sure..stop riding him....yep, that'l fix it alright.

Nope, don't agree at all. That is exactly what that horse would LIKE you to do Earl..stop riding, get off, put him away...."job done" for the horse.
You go your way and he will go his....

Somedays it just don't pay to try and help people here.

Yep..take him to a trainer...where he will be FINE for the trainer, then bring him back home where he will try the exact same thing on you....
Sorry folks, but horses are much smarter than they ever get credit for.

Hey Earl..maybe you should blindfold him so he will "think" you are the trainer!

Yeah, yeah thats the ticket.................................. :lol:

[finolover]

have no problem "staying safe"....IN the saddle. I do not fear and am not intimidated by horses. If you are...then by all means leap off and longe.... after all...the horse WANTS you off.....

Sure..stop riding him....yep, that'l fix it alright.

Nope, don't agree at all. That is exactly what that horse would LIKE you to do Earl..stop riding, get off, put him away...."job done" for the horse.
You go your way and he will go his....

Somedays it just don't pay to try and help people here.


if you think youre quoteing me here you better read the post again.........
i'm no quitter...aint skeerd....i've took my lumps and bruises...
and feel like giving a few back........
dig your spurs in the ribs they belong in...........
i've proved i'll do what i'm physically able to :mad:

[Barbwire]

hey banana .... SPLIT...try being a tree and leave :lol: :lol: ;-)
nd the bouncin poo sign is in poor taste :razz:

Prove it's in poor taste, eat it. I know you're a little dense, so let me splain how to peel it to ya. First, peel it in four easy steps. One skin, two skin, three skin, f http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/censored.gifin.

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/rofl.gif

[finolover]

ya..know i fear getting bucked, bit and kicked on this bb more than i do my horses...i'm a human , man, person, not a dumb...asz mule.....

i feel sorry for new horse owners, trying to learn it on the boards....
i'll never forgey the old board and getting told to grow a set of cahones and a backbone..the first few days i was signed up... :mad:

throw an apple at a horse, get your arse in trouble...
don't disipline one and ya get the same shift....

incredible....look up the definition :evil:

[Jasfino]

I have no problem "staying safe"....IN the saddle. I do not fear and am not intimidated by horses. If you are...then by all means leap off and longe.... after all...the horse WANTS you off.....



I am the one that said it was better to dismount if you feel unsafe. I wasnt directing that comment to you personally Terry. I think its John Lyons that says to always remember... You cant get hurt and the horse cant get hurt. There is no shame in dismounting a horse that is acting up.

As to the getting off and not riding, I was merely stating the fact that if everytime this horse is ridden and gets away with this behavior.. the behavior becomes a pattern. Patterns are hard to break.. ask me.. I speak from experience. If you read my post entirely, you would see I suggested other options.

I understand Earl exactly how unfeeling some comments seem when all you are trying to do is get help or answers. Dont let it get you down.

[Terry Wallace]

Earl.. not directed at you at all.

You know Earl, all I ever do is TRY and help you. You have been at this "horse trial" over a year now on one horse or another.
I do think you have the ability to step up to the plate and fix this.
If you don't...you might as well order that ATV.....

I'm just tired of all the contradicting...thats all Earl..again, not directed at you. Good luck to you...I'm done here.

[SandyMM]

Earl - something that has worked for us in a number of situations similar to yours (I _never_ got the push button horses to ride when I was younger and showing... ;-) ), is to 'untrack' the horse from whatever he is concentrating on at the moment. This does require that you do pre-emptive strikes, though. The split second you feel a twitch, a dropped shoulder, a shift in weight, a change in rhythm or 'flow', you must 'untrack' immediately. The easiest untracking method is to ride with your hands fairly low and about 18"-24" apart. "jig" the reins - left side, right side - mix it up and keep him wondering what's going on... He can't think about misbehaving (as easily) when he's thinking about what _you_ may do next. Holding the reins out wider than usual gives you better leverage and a split second advantage whichever way he may try to turn and gives him very little to pull against. When he is behaving, it lets him have a relatively free rein.

We have a new gelding here who has the drop shoulder/180 splitsecond turn perfected - probably due to previous untrained riders - once we got his number and started untracking him, we have been able to nearly eliminate the 'drop and turns' in just a couple of rides.. a couple more rides and I don't think we'll have that problem again.

In many, many cases - a 'pre-emptive strike' can prevent the recurrence of problems that have already been ingrained, but it requires the rider to be able to read an impending situation before it actually happens...

Where are you located?

Good luck...

[Trail Rider]

I am sorry but if I could not get the horse to do what I wanted then I would not have him.

I would rule out any tack or health issues. Then he would go. If it took a whip on his rump then that is what it would be and as hard and often as needed. I am just too hard headed to let a horse get away with it. If I was afraid of getting hurt then I would get rid of the horse. Earl I am not saying that you are afraid of getting hurt because I do not believe that you are. I just know there are some situations that I would not want to be in is all.

When I ask him to go he would go or he would be gone. Now eveyone can tell me that I am wrong and cruel or whatever.

[finolover]

larry
if i thought for one second that a 2x4 across his rump or kick spurs into his ribs till i drew blood would work and get him past this he'd already got it!!
he ignores punishment....i tested him or he tested me just now!
i went in the corral and he turned his head acting like he was watching something way off( his usual gig) i stuck my index finger straight out and called his name..walked up and slowly touched his bare eyeball..and then he barely blinked..still not turning his head to say i see ya :-?
as i walked away he was one step behind me till i opened the gate..had to push him over to get the gate open..

i turned him loose in the yard by the corral, fired up the polaris 4x4 and rode up and slowly bumped his side...he was lookin away...so i got a four foot buggy whip and just shook it in the air as i rode behind him...he poked along staying out of my reach, looking my way only to see where the whip was..not concerned at all about all the noise the two stroker was making..never hit him with the whip.
after i put the 4x4 away he walked up and put his nose in the halter.,.
sheesh....he's a RETAAARD
he never got over 30 yards from the corral and he COULD have ran ten miles.
i love the easy going temperment, but he77 whats it gonna take to make him STAND up and LISTEN :confused

[Barbwire]

Geez Earl, if he isn't afraid of the ATV, that's a good thing in my book. Lack of fear is very much desired in a trail horse. If you call that retarded, then put him on the short bus and send him here. :D

[SandyMM]

i love the easy going temperment, but he77 whats it gonna take to make him STAND up and LISTEN
Are you sure it's an 'easy going temperament' or 'oppositional defiance'...? The first one will doodle along and do whatever you ask, the second is calm and quiet and ... defiant....

I had a young filly I started for a couple - she would walk along fine on a lead rope until I stopped - then she walked right over me.... So I started with a hand on the chest - nothing - got walked over; butt of a buggy whip in the chest - nothing - got walked over; and so on up the ladder of 'attention getters'... After one too many stomped toes, I wrapped the working end of the buggy whip around her nose... She stopped dead stock still and actually looked me in the eye... and took a step back... Never had to touch her again.... and never got walked on again...

Point being... do what it takes, as much as it takes, make it count, and be done with it.... or sell.... why spend time and money on one that can not or will not cooperate?

And before all the 'naturals' chime in - this was pretty much before their emergence...

[finolover]

stepping up to the plate has not been the problem,
sometime during the process of trying to step over his back..i find myself pushing my body up with my palm down on the saddle..this puts me almost prone for too long with my face down and all my weight on my left palm...plenty time for a horse to knock me off balance..............my lower back is so stiff i can't swing my leg high enough to clear the rump without the extra boost off the left arm'''it's asking nervous quito alot to let someone wallow around on his back till they get seated. ultimo can handle this mess with ease/.the mounting block don't quite fill all the needs...... :PICS

[finolover]

and so on up the ladder of 'attention getters'

where is the top of this ladder?
i walked him two miles..had to drag him the first mile, stopped to set on a rock and he walked circles around me like on a longe line , untill i started back for home,then on the return trip he tried to drag me! i used the end of the lead to pop him quite a few times..he'd take a step back and stay there for three strides then pass me up and start dragging me, once i accidently him him hard in the eyeball with the rope..three strides later he was back up front pulling again!

cutting him across the front don't work, throw my hand up and shake the line just causes him to toss his head away and keep walking....
everytime i stopped he'd come up and try to rub his halter off on my shoulder.....if he was just a little mean with his actions..i'd feel better
useing a bigger stick.....
if the new trainer backs out..i'm taking him back where i got him....to get fixed...or sold..........
either that or the louiville slugger..
i've sure got a lesson about horse..two years ...and i've had maybe three screwed up rides here in trail heaven........... :mad: :evil:

[Hollis D. Gammon]

Earl, you are the prime example for my statement of :

"There are people out there that will "push" the wrong horse off on the less knowledgeable, just to make a horse sale"

It really gets to me when this happens. It's sours the buyer on paso finos and worst of all there's a really good chance the buyer could get seriously hurt.

I own the perfect horse for any one in your situation, is she for sale ABSOLUTELY NOT never will be as long as she and I are alive.

If you are ever down [or is it over] my way, I'd like you toe ride this mare, you will get no reaction, to dragging your leg over her but, stand perfectly still until you pick up the reins, even then just perks up her ears waiting for your next command. You stop lay the reins on her neck and she will stand right there until you pick them up again.

When leading she will be about 2 feet to the right of your right shoulder
and 1-2 feet behind you and stays right there to or from the barn. You have to turn your head right slightly just to get a glimpse of where she is.

Did I train her to do all this, no I bought her as a 5yo that was already trained. BUT I have reinforced this training ever time I handle her over the past 8 years.

You just need the right horse, and unfortunately, with the sellers practices that you have incountered, you may give up on PASO FINOS Before you get the right horse.

Good luck in your search

PS I have 2.95 horses like that and none are for sale.

Merrcedes, Ali, and Traficante.

That .95 horse is my stallion, when there is a mare in heat around he's .90 of the correct horse, when there isn't he's 1.00. He will get in front of you, if you let him, when a mare in heat is around. UNLESS I've bred him 4/5 days in a row then I have to drag him out of his stall.

[Edurne]

i see you tried smacking him on the rump when he backs and it has had no affect. Have you tried smacking him on the shoulder? this is what breaks the discussion with Primero when he gets into frantic backing (last time when we were out with the snail pace trail riders) he also pawed that day, something he doesn't usually do, I smacked him on the shoulder for that. I gave up using the bit and the head shaking stopped. The bozal works fine for him and he is much much happier. Great that you have good balance, I had to wait until mine had improved (after my accident) before I could step up to the potential challenges. We have a step stool at the barn cut out of a tree, to get up on the thoroughbreds, it is so big, that I can just swing a leg over on to Primero without using stirrup.

[finolover]

he has short memory retention.....i't like leading a four year old thru wal-mart toy dept. :mad:
after being pastured with the same old gelding for ten years ..then not ridden for a year, then only by a lady who let him do anything he wanted...he's turned into a hand full!!!
set him up on the mouting block now and he'll back away from it before i can get a foot in the stirrup........i'm waiting for a bit thats been on order
for two months....bosal now !!

it's weird i've got two horses..one i hate to love, and one i 'd love to hate but can't :razz:

[Edurne]

I had a hard time training Primero to get close to the mounting block and/or close to fences as he had always been mounted from the ground. I can get him up close on his left side now, but still working for response to get him close on his right side. It's been a year of steady work with him - and most of the improvements have happened to ME.

[Terry Wallace]

A "magic bit" is not going to cure this relationship. If he is stepping away from the mounting block...put him somewhere he cannot do that...like up against a building, up against a fence, in a corner.... be 1% smarter than the horse...that is all it takes.

Avoid pulling on his wither.... get up and down ten times on that block if thats what it takes to get him to stand...

Or...you could always order up the ATV....

[pasoglide]

Earl my gelding was the same way . I raised him since he was nine months old and he was spoiled . He would walk all over me and drag me around and he wasn't scared of being hit or being punished . Patti took him when he was almost four years old and she straightened him out . She said that he wasn't mean just a bully . She had to get pretty tough with him . So I had to learn to be tough with him also .

[Barbwire]

Go ahead Terry, tell him how to teach the stand command.

[finolover]

put him somewhere he cannot do that...like up against a building, up against a fence, in a corner
that might work on ultimo...
but try it with Quito, and somethings gonna give.........i'm trying to find the line between respect and fear with ultimo ..i crossed that line with Quito and it took monthttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/finolover/polarisatv.jpghs to get him back
I"VE GOT AN A TV

[Tracey]

Earl, can you trailer him somewhere and ride him away from home? I almost bet he will be fine. I know you want to ride the home trails, and after you get a partnership going on other trails you may see improvement.
When I got Doll, she tested me pretty good at first riding away from home, nothing crazy, just the stopping and backing and a few crow hops. I have always felt comfortable (grew up on poorly trained horses) so I put the helmet on, rode it out twice, she realized all it was was more work and has never tried me again. She too is a pushy,no fear horse, I wouldn't trade it for the world out on the trails, deer, turkey whatever comes at us she doesn't budge, but I had to prove to her that I could make her do it. She loves to go riding, meets me at the gate every day, we just had to work through the first couple of weeks.
I agee with Terry, sending him away to a trainer isn't going to fix this, it has to be you if you are going to keep him.

[Barbwire]

OMG Earl!!! I wanted you before I saw that picture. Now I must have you. (swoon)

[finolover]

my new trainer, jeremy goff of farmington mo. worked with ultimo friday.
he never let MO get to the snorting and blowing ..when MO stopped, jeremy would drop the reins, pick up the left rein and flex mo's head then switch to the right rein, he did this until MO had to take a step to keep his balance, squeezing with the legs(first) and clucking to him next...warning with the flat of his hand on Ultimo's rump....at first Mo' paid no attention to the warning..so he got popped on the rump..he'd jump forward...jeremy instructed me that having a loose rein as Mo made his forward jump was KEY, as he jumps your body gets pushed back in the saddle and you'll pull back on the reins stopping him before he can move on :!:
after a little while ultimo ignored the hand spank, so jeremy moved up to a quirt..that did the trick :!:
they rode for about seven or eight miles, mo probably locked up twenty times...we followed behind in the car to be in on the show and tell...

he said ultimo had been treated like a spoiled child and let do as he pleased....it took him an hour of hard down ground training to get ultimo's respect for leading...mo was slow on the learning, that he had to stay in his own space...

the ground training looked worse than it was...jeremy had to use a buggy whip and viciously slash...........the ground right in front of Mo's hooves, while pushing him back with the lead rope......
i've learnd i was'nt being forceful enough...jeremy said "don't just start wailing away on Mo, squeeze with the legs, cluck, then move up..in that order to always give him a chance first to respond........i hired him to come a few days a month to work more with my horses..
i'm very confident he will get the job done without any mental or physical harm to them...and i will learn ..............he takes the time to explain what he's doing and why......lucky me :cooldude

[Jasfino]

This is great news Earl. I'm proud you found Jeremy to help you.

[stella]

Yes, that IS great news. It does no good for just the horses to get the training, it's more necessary that you do TOO to continue with it....only then will the problems be solved, once and for all! Of course, its a matter of changing your ways to new ones, too....but I know you will.....I'm very happy for you!

[cowboy ed]

locked up 20 times? i still think the horse has a bad stifle. cowboy ed

[finolover]

jeremy tested him, by lifting each leg to make him stand with all his weight
on each leg..looking for pain......none found

[cowboy ed]

that test will not detect a bad stifle. does mo ever drag a rear leg at all during these episodes?

[finolover]

no drags..or lameness

[finolover]

all this locking up, snorting and blowing/ backing is being done going away from the barn...when he knows he's headed back he moves on without a hitch :-?

[finolover]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/finolover/jerandultimo.jpg

yesterday was Mo's second session with jeremy, they rode about five miles...he stalled once, a light tap with the quirt..and on he went....jeremy
turned him toward home and back away from home many times to test him........he's worlds better :lol:

[Pasogirlz]

I'm so happy to hear that! And I know you are learning lots too....which is worth every penny you are spending. ;-) Mo looks good in the photo too. Very nice. 8-)

[motorgypsy]

Yaaaaaay Earl!!!

[Jasfino]

He is looking good. Is Jeremy working with Quito too? I had a thought of maybe you riding out on Mo and Jeremy riding out on Qutio when the time is right. :D I'm happy for you.

[Edurne]

nice looking horse Earl :cooldude

[finolover]

jeremy working with quito
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/finolover/jeremyandquito.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/finolover/ultimointhesnow2006014.jpg

[Edurne]

now we are seeing something :rearing

[Lynn L.]

Earl, I am so glad to see that you found someone to work with! You will find that you are the one who will learn the most - the horses will learn - but you will learn a ton, I hope.

I am one of those "natural" ones pretty much. You have to move up the ladder of attention getting until the attention is got! I found that my spoiled filly can take alot before she realizes that I am serious. My boy is very sensative. They are all different!

Sounds like you are on the right track!

[stella]

Jeremy has a great seat, earl....is Quito the type to like to MOTOR alot?(like, his speeds are fast, and faster?) I see J's got quite a rein on him! Or, is there a story here? Just curious, its obvious jeremy has complete control - which Quito seems somewhat surprised about, maybe? Love his expression!

[finolover]

Quito has a need for speed and hates standing still.....
jeremy spent the first session(getting to know Quito) and Quito senced jeremy was not there to hurt him!!!
but being a horse that NEVER completely gives up, Quito tried to pull away twice, jeremy just went along where ever Quito tried to drag him and never lost his composure or his grip :D

this was his first under saddle ride in over a year, jeremy will work on getting quito to soften.....and if he does, he will be the first trainer to do so in Quito's 13 years of life....and i'm sure jeremy can and will get the job done.....and Quito won't realize it till it's too late ;-)
quito has been a different horse around the corral since this day, much calmer and less spooky........I LOVE IT...... :lol:

[cowboy ed]

so, is this quito, the crazed killer horse? old spook and dumpya quito, spin and run quito? looks like the Jman got his nimber! :lol: