Judges and Stewards Clinic Ocala 2007-comments as auditor

[Candice Burger]

Once again, I'm impressed with the overall dedication exhibited by our judges and stewards. For those who complain about our judges should attend such a clinic at least once. I think you'd have a change of heart once you actually observed our judges and heard their thoughts outside of the arena.

I am extremely heartened by what I observed at the clinic this past weekend. I'll be adding my thoughts about what I learned in bits and pieces as I have time this week.

My first comment is I was also very surprised that I didn't see many auditors at the clinic. The clinics are OPEN to anyone who is a member of PFHA. For $25 you get the same experience and share the same knowledge as our esteemed officials. The presentations are always well done.

I went to my first clinic about 3-4 years ago because I was disenchanted with our judges. I was one of the first to whine and complain about how bad our judges were. Well, the more I thought about it the more I decided I needed to get to bottom as to why that was. So, I went to the first clinic I could go to. Surprise, surprise. I walked out realizing that I was totally WRONG about where the blame belonged.

The clinic this weekend reinforces my new line of thinking. It's not so much the judges, it's the rules folks and the strangled hold "we" have put on our judges. My God! They are not allowed to use common sense nor encourage true horsemanship in our classes any longer. No wonder our shows have become mind-numbing, inconsistent, and perpetually negative.

I took lots of notes. More on that.....

[Terry Wallace]

I'd love to go to one..but Ocala is just way too far (for me) to audit a clinic.... :D
Do they have them any closer to Colorado?

[Candice Burger]

Now, now Terry, that's one of my "notes"...which kinda goes like this.

"should be done nation wide" I noted that allot of SE/E judges were there. A few from TX and along the S edge of the USA. Mostly because they had to attend to keep their cards. "A Senior Certified Judge or Steward is required toattend a clinic at least once every five (5) years. A Certified Judge or Steward is required to attend a clinic at least once every three (3) years."

After hearing the open panel discussion, reviewing some equitation rules in CONFEPASO, and some other comments by participants, there is no doubt they need to get together more frequently. No wonder our shows lanquish and our judges aren't on the same page.

"should be bilateral in education" perhaps have a conjunctive seminar for owners and breeders and allow for exchange. We have professional conferences like that all the time. There will be about 3 sessions in place at all times during the day. Usually I'll pick the topics of interest to me or have some direct relationship to my job and attend those lectures. Why not have the same for PFHA?

and NOOOOO for having such an event during Nationals. How convenient because "everyone will be there". Sure! And when will "everyone" have the time to do an all day clinic between taking care of horses, clients, and classes?

I believe there was an attempt to have at least 2 JS clinics/year at different locations. I don't know if that is still attempted or not.

I suspect Ocala is popular because some of these people take advantage of the trip to go visit farms later.

[Terry Wallace]

About how many judges & stewards are there at any one time?

[Candice Burger]

Another note that got my ire up immediately. I have one phrase to show management "bugger off".

Leave the judges to judge dagdabit! I couldn't believe my ears when some judges said that they were dictated to by show management about use of the sounding board and other tests in the arena. Dictated to because they were taking too long. Dictated to because the classes were too short.

No wonder our shows are too long!

No wonder mob rules in the spectator stands!

No wonder judges don't have time to really TEST our horses!

Show management: Have you not HEARD the people! The shows are too long, too boring! Do you really think I'm entertained????? By watching a mob of horses that neither warrant nor deserve to be tested on the sounding board?????? Do you really think it's needed to "see" gait????????

If you have a bunch of folks that need to be surficially entertained by something other than GOOD display of horsemanship then set up a coin-operated video arcade and it get over with! Put a dang video of a horse going over the board and let them "judge" whether the horse is in "gait" or not. First, you'll become rich! Second it'll keep the stands for those of us who are there for the breed and not to try to skim pockets on the next breeding fee. Third, maybe the mob will learn something about what the sounding board is really for. Cadence, it's for cadence not gait.

LEAVE THE JUDGES TO JUDGE THE CLASS AND THE HORSES! This is only the second clinic I've audited but I'm here to tell you I have 100% complete faith in our judges' ability. Start using them! COMPLAIN about show management!

Use of Sounding Board.
Judges may use the sounding board in Classic Fino, Performance, Pleasure and Bellas Formas classes and, after prior consultation with show management, as an obstacle in a Paso Trail class.

Know what "may" means? It means that is discretionary. Purely discretionary. Show management is TELLING judges how to judge!

Know why judges cower to show management? Check out the PFHA rules about what it takes to keep your license as a PFHA judge:

To become certified to senior certified
References.
The Judges and Stewards Committee shall seek information from members of the Association and from Regional Groups where the applicant has officiated. Responses on questionnaires should be excellent or good in all categories.

And this one was used ALLOT during the clinic
Show Management Direction; Effect of Judge’s
Decision.
A Judge works for show management and is under direction of that show committee.

The last phrase is out of context and abused by everyone in my opinion. If show management doesn't "like" a judge to begin with don't hire them!! Oh, and QUIT using your pocket books as excuses for picking judges. I'm sick of hearing judges making comments that if they don't do what show management wants they won't get hired again. I'm also sick of hearing how many regions "vote" for a judge because they draw a crowd not because they have the integrity to place horses in an honest way.

Would someone PLEASE break the cycle! Or do both judges and show management need more rules to dictate what integrity and honesty is? Isn't there anyone out there that has the backbone to care about the breed anymore?

I simply don't believe that's true! I KNOW there's judges out there that can do the job. I have every confidence they can tell gait, phenotype, and place them accordingly. Start doing that (again). If every judge in that room this past weekend made a pact to just start judging for correctness the breed would be eons ahead than where it is today.

I thought I had my slogan with "Burn the Board", but it's more dire than that "Back to the Fundamentals". I'd love to see one judge with the guts to use the board as intended. One.

Someone has to say they know the paso can do MORE than go in a straight line for 15 seconds on a slab of wood. There's got to be more to this horse than that!

I'll borrow Bonnie Raitt's lyrics
Let's get back to the fundamental things
Let's get back to the elements of style
Let's get back to the simple skin on skin
Let's get back to the fundamental things

[Candice Burger]

I estimated about 60 folks at the clinic this year. The last one I attended in Ocala only had about 20.

[Candice Burger]

There was an open panel discussion at the end of the clinic.
One topic of discussion was about how to pin horses that are in a workoff and quit performing in gait.

First it was pointed out the way the rules are written now. A judge is still required to place horses consecutively once in a work off. There was a long discussion about the strategies to avoid placing a horse that is no longer meeting class criteria, but that's another subject.

Work Off.
If in the process of making judgment during a class, it becomes necessary to entertain a work off between any group of horses, the judge shall place those horses consecutively in final placement. A work off does not necessarily mean that the contestants are vying for first place. Any horse that becomes unruly, ill-mannered or unsafe shall be excused from the ring.

The reason we have this rule is because there was a day a class would be full and a judge would use his discretion to give only a few placements instead of 6 with HM. For instance he could only place 3 horses and give out second, third and fifth. The reasoning was only 3 horses met the qualifying gaits (I agree with this) and none of the three met the ideal standard (I don't agree with this). Well what happened is folks insisted that there's no such thing as a perfect performance and all places should be given out.

The most intimidated judges then began to place horses that didn't meet the qualifying gaits. How many performance horses really walk? And then we've got the problem with fino horses that can't maintain gait.

So now, we have long classes, working our horses too long, some getting tired and starting to fail. So to "protect" our "best horses" we guarantee them a placement not matter what. Well there wasn't a judge in the room that agreed a horse out of gait should be placed period. But the rule as written says it will happen anyway. So don't beat your judge up over that one! Just remember we asked for it , we got it. Now who voted for that one?

Here's what is bothering me about "protecting" horses that are brilliant for 15 minutes but can't sustain themselves for 30 minutes. I was racking my brain trying to remember the good ol' days where horses broke gait. Sure we had horses that in corto competing in fino classes or couldn't largo in performance classes, but I'm talking about horses that quit gaiting, go out of gait and can't get back into gait. We also had allot, I mean a whole bunch that could not only sustain gait for the class, they did it all day every day. I know, it's a wild concept.

I think we are punishing our horses instead of protecting them by rewarding the 15 minute hero. Again, I'm tired of watching a horse so tired and in trocha win the PFHA Grand National Fino Championship. I think we are rewarding the wrong thing.

Bear with me, because I'm circling the wagons on this. While I was in PR I had a nice conversation with a breeder about how much the paso fino had evolved from 20 years ago. How the gait was more expressive, more brilliant, the training was better, the riding better, etc. Yes this is all true. We can get a paso to perform with fantastic quickness and shortness. The horse is brilliant while it performs this in gait.

But what is it costing the horse to perform this? There is a link to a video that demonstrates what happens to the horse and we've all seen it. PM if you want the link. Think about it. I can run pretty darn fast but for what distance? A sprinter isn't a marthon runner. So maybe we've kept artificially raising the bar on this. Quicker and quicker, shorter and shorter until the horse can not sustain it but he is totally worn out. How many have seen horses that can't get the back legs in front of the vertical? How many have seen horses stay behind the vertical on one or two hind legs? How many have seen horses heaving to point of panting? This isn't normal and this isn't about conformational faults. This isn't "correct". It is a demonstration of ignorance and a total lack of awareness for the animal. And I want to "protect" this? Nah, I don't think so.

We all know why horses work behind the vertical. It's an avoidance mechanism when the horse is either over collected or the frame too short to perform. Rather than wag his butt outside the line he drags the rear end. We have noble horses trying their best and a bunch of riders too numb in the butt, legs and hands to know what they've just done to their animals.

I don't think the horse has evolved nearly as quickly as the training tricks have. I don't believe we are demonstrating what a paso can do. Yes the paso gait is brilliant just on it's own merit. We need to encourage correct movement at ALL times in the arena. We aren't protecting our best horses by placing them when the rider has worn them out. We are protecting riders and owners not the horse. Shame on them for not having enough empathy to ride a horse and let him "rest" or extend enough to get his wind and his muscles a break during a long work out.

I wonder if our judges would have recognized and allowed a horse to extend slightly to give a correct performance or would he have penalized the horse for it? I've seen riders not realizing that the so-called rhythm of the gait has been maintained at the extreme cost of balance, true cadence, lack of impulsion and loss of movement.

The horses are telling us they can only go so far at this pace. Either we shorten our classes up for this 15 minute claim to fame or we start penalizing riders for their total lack of horsemanship while in a class.

I'll really stick my neck out and say our judges know better too. They know why a horse isn't able to perform correct foot flight. They know why a horse suddenly gets "low handed" (as if that is really desireable) when he was performing with clearer mechanics. They know why a horse suddenly shortens his footfall when he is braced instead of collected. They know why a horse swings his longitudinal line out of plane. They know why the head goes down in the bridle. All of these are signals of horse that is over ridden and tired. This isn't brilliant nor is it paso.

We need rules to empower our judges to do what is right for this breed. I believe they already know this. We are protecting our fragile, mini-egos not the horse. Good horsemanship should not be punished unintentionally because we have unrealistic expectations. We are hurting our horses. Let the judges do what is right by this breed. Support rules that bring back correct performances and a horse that can demonstrate this all day long.

[Candice Burger]

Ya'll thought I was done?? :lol: :lol: I got plenty more.

The CONFEPASO policy for equitation is encouraging the chair seat instead of the classical, balanced seat. The presenter for this topic is an international judge and from Puerto Rico. I was rather astonished to learn that Puerto Rico is adopting the CONFEPASO rules. For decades the best equitation riders in Puerto Rico rode the classical, balanced seat as taught in Dressage. I've a few dozen photos of the best riders in PR showing the balanced seat while in competition. Yet for some reason, now the chair seat variation is encouraged.

I looked for an illustration in the CONFEPASO equitation rule book but couldn't find one. Ask PFHA to post the presentation about CONFEPASO equitation rules.

If I hadn't tried a few horses with strong diagonal tendencies I wouldn't have understood why such a push was in play. A horse with natural tendencies for trocha must be ridden in the bridle and with the pelvis tilted to drive the rear forward. A real three point contact in the seat. I played around with a few horses to get them in and out of gait trying to determine what it took to get the horse to maintain a paso gait and how easily it was to bring them out of it. I have a serious problem bracing with my legs and have to really practice getting my position properly, but even I could attain a balanced seat long enough to try out a few pelvic tilts.

The chair seat encourages the rider's weight to be on one of the weakest points in the horse's back causing ventroflexion, which will bring the rear into a more lateral gait. The back sags instead of rounds out. By driving forward the front movement is controlled through the bit. A rider has to have both to get a horse with natural diagonalness to go more lateral. The chair seat gives a false sensation of security and collection.

How many have seen the huge sag in the backs of pasos competing and the awful chair seat? http://www.artofriding.com/articles/achievingseat.html
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/Equitation/GHEquitation.shtml

Don't let CONFEPASO fool you into thinking this is "traditional" paso riding!!! The PFHA rule book defines the classical, balanced seat. The seat appropriate for all styles of riding including the paso fino. Puerto Rico insist on getting your equitation style back! Reclaim the balanced seat.

PFHA rule
Feet and Leg Position.
The rider's leg should hang naturally with a slight bend at the knee. The rider's lower leg should be under the rider's body and not flared outward. Flaring of lower leg shall be penalized. The rider's feet should be parallel with the horse's body with the heels slightly lowered (approximately 1 inch). The ball of the rider's foot should rest directly over the stirrup iron with even pressure on the entire iron with heel, hip and point of shoulder in line. The rider's foot position should be natural (neither extremely in nor out).

We don't want to encourage the chair seat in our paso fino riders!! Instead teach the rider the straight balanced seat and if the horse needs encouragement to tilt the pelvis. Don't let CONFEPASO sway the good equitation and keep our PFHA rules for the balanced seat.

The balanced, straight, classical seat is a very good alternative to the chair seat, provides superior balance, puts less stress on the horse's back, and is safer for a rider to use. On those horses that require a slight amount of ventroflexion to perform their gait, it is possible, using this seat, to slightly tip the pelvis, brace the lower back, maintain the same shoulder, hip and heel alignment, encourage some ventroflexion, and still stay in balance with the horse.

[Candice Burger]

Ah yes, there is more. Last one for tonight.

About this gait thing. Sometimes I get bored by the discussion and other times I'm all bent out of shape. I finally figured out what gets me all hot and bothered about it. There ain't no mythical, magic, hoo-joo to it. Sheesh!

If you tap your fingers to your favorite song while driving, if you know how to walk, if you can chew gum, if you know when you car sounds right or when the washing machine is out of balance, then you know gait. You may not know how to articulate it or know that you recognize it, but believe me, you know gait.

Gait is the mechanics, the syncopation of the movememt. I remember when I took music lessons in grade school. The state champion drummer was my best friend and she was only 12 years old at the time. She'd been competing for 3 years. So that's 9 years old folks. A 9 year old girl that knew about syncopation. If you sing you know gait. Now how she put the spin on her sticks--now that's magical and that's the "paso" of the gait. How it is expressed.

For some reason folks think it's a secret, this paso gait thing. It's not. It's a matter of practice. It's simple mechanics. If you can tell if a horse is lame in a foot while walking, then you can learn gait.

Don't let the "experts" tell you any different. All you need to do is practice looking at it. Even my partner can tell gait and he doesn't even know he's doing it. I nudge him out of his Tom Clancy book for him to look at a horse and ask--what do you think? He tells me 90% of the time if that horse is in paso or not. Maybe he doesn't sound all technical and expertisy, but he's got it down.

Gait is easy to discern. Don't be intimidated because you're new to the breed or new to gait. All it takes is practice. Learn it and let our judges know we expect them to remember it too.

Seems some of our judges some of whom I have watched learn gait have forgotten their roots. ;-) In case there's some confusion in this---we all started somewhere learning about gait and pasos. There wasn't an expert among us that was spat out of the womb knowing "gait". Try to remember that you are not the few but the many.

[Cindy]

The chair seat encourages the rider's weight to be on one of the weakest points in the horse's back causing ventroflexion, which will bring the rear into a more lateral gait. The back sags instead of rounds out. By driving forward the front movement is controlled through the bit. A rider has to have both to get a horse with natural diagonalness to go more lateral. The chair seat gives a false sensation of security and collection.


Can we post this in all barns that have horses much like we do the liability disclaimer in states that have them? I think the horses would thank us if nothing else.

On another note, GO CANDICE, GO CANDICE!!!!!!

:hello :smilieparty

[Candice Burger]

:razz: :razz:

Since I was an auditor I wasn't allowed to speak. So I took notes, lots of notes. I'm saving the best for last though. Stay tuned; same place; same BB.

[Terry Wallace]

HHHhheeeeeellllllllllllllll yes I have seen horses travelling extremely hollow from riding with an incorrect seat...in fact...some of them get jacked up backs from it.... it makes the hind quarter look like it isn't on the SAME horse ..... !

[Candice Burger]

I had to come up for air.

Dr. Torres, an applicant judge from Colombia and also a veterinarian presented a provocative topic about skeletal angles as it relates to gait for both the paso and trocha gaits. I got all agitated and excited so my notes are not up to par. His presentation and finding are in Spanish, but well worth getting a copy if you can. Excellent work!

He measured a total of 108 horses with verified pedigrees from individuals back at least 3 generations. He used individuals where the parents and grandparents were verified as the same modality as the individual measured. So a paso horse came from parents and grandparents of paso modality, same for trocha.

He then measured their shoulder and hip angles and their hoof angles. Several slides presented the final angles measured. I am assuming these were averaged, but I could not confirm this. It was late and really no one wanted to go into the details. He also divided each gait category into male and female groupings.

What he found out was in 96.9% of ALL individuals the angles did not influence gait. I couldn't quite catch the next statement so don't hold me to it. Ask for a copy of the presentation from PFHA. What I understand there wasn't enough signficant difference between measurements to say angles mattered. The conclusion was genetics, general phenotype/overall conformation (not just shoulder and hip angles), played a bigger role. If a horse inherits the genes for paso, they tend to paso more than not and the same for trocha. The angles were too similar between the groups to say there was any significant difference.

He found that MOST horses no matter the modality have the best expressions between the typical and generally recognized range of angles for horses that gait. In other words, what I saw on the data summary tables was no more different than if it were any other gaited breed. The angles were pretty much the same.

Boy I was so excited to hear that because this has been my belief all along. Good confo and the right inherited genes makes for a well gaited horse. All this boo-wa about shoulder angle this and hip angle that is nothing more that supposition based on phenotypical appearance and no real measurements. Well Dr. Torres spent 3 months gathering data out in the field and then compiled the data. His paper is about 200 pages long. I'm trying to find out if he has published his findings and how to get a copy of his paper.

Problem is, I got so excited in the first few minutes of his presentation, I may have written what I wanted to hear instead of his actual findings.

It was announced at the clinic that all presentations would be posted on PFHA web site, so help me with this! Ask PFHA to post the presentations on the web.

[Candice Burger]

Note remanents:

I was struck by the depth of involvement by everyone at the clinic. It seems we fight a bigger, more common enemy that I realized. We are too far apart, maybe too isolated sometimes. We don't see each other often enough outside the paso show realm. Not really. Allot regions meet during shows because it's their best chance of getting the most folks together at a place that is convenient.

I go to visit farms in Ocala and it's all about getting horses prepared for show or selling horses based on a show record of a relative or the horse itself. Nothing about other disciplines.

What I saw were a bunch of folks preoccupied with one aspect of the breed that has become all consuming. How could it not be with a group of judges, trainers, and farms that show? Because they are so entrenched in that part of the breed, they forget themselves. Because the rest of us are also so involved in other aspects of the breed, the meetings and shows don't take on the same priorities.

There's only a few places in this country where one can find neighboring paso farms that I am aware of and they are in Florida.

There's clinics, trail rides, small events dotted around the country that are taking a foot hold and it's good to see. It wasn't that long ago such things didn't exist. Or if it were tried few would attend.

I guess in all of this, I want us all to remember that we aren't alone only separated by large distances, which can make it seem lonely. It's great to be focused and specialized in a particular discipline, but let's not forget that is only a part of what this horse is and by no means defines the breed as a whole.

I crashed a discussion at the end of the clinic because of this subject. I finally asked a clinician who I was. Am I show? Am I pleasure? He said neither. I want to go on record here and answer that question.

I AM PASO FINO!!!!!! I can cover time and distance, all disciplines, all gaits, all countries, all cultures. When I meet another paso fino person, what they DO with their horses is trivial compared to what they ARE with their horses.

[Candice Burger]

Final note.

Going to a Judges and Stewards clinic has been very rewarding and a positive experience for me. They are folks just like me trying to work through complex issues. I admire them for their tenacity. There is no way I could become a judge and deal with the barrage of problems that one deals with.

The clinics I've attended have been well organized. The presentations well prepared. The handouts informative. The atmosphere is professional. I salute you judges.

For those of us who are not judges, we need to quit using them as the scapegoats for the ills of our shows. That's easy and it cheapens the real problems that are much deeper than that. Our judges are the cream of the crop. We should be empowering them not suffocating them with petty rules. We should be encouraging them, no expecting them to continue their education in all aspects of the breed and horses in general.

Our rules are a mess. They are unclear and ill defined. Because we lack confidence in our own system of certifying judges, we have allowed poorly thought out rules to be created that are negative for our judges and therefore for our breed.

These people are good people, isn't it time we took a leap of faith and believed in them too?