Having a problem with my paso.

[Driving Ms. Daisey]

hey,

any help would be appreciated, I am having difficulty crossing over areas that involve my mare stepping down and across, for instance a mean looking river er ditch filled with water from all of the rain, she tunes me out and I can see the look on her face that we are going no farther, I thought it was the water, but we ruled that out last weekend as we stomped in every drop of water on the trail except for the ditch which we did not overcome, any suggestions?

[Pasogirlz]

First of all...
http://bestsmileys.com/welcome/11.gif

Now, tell us more about your horse! Age, bloodlines, and training history. :D I'm sure this well help our panel of experts to evaluate the situation better.

Welcome!

I think this is a common issue.. the few times i've ridden when it comes to go over a little puddle or whole the horse avoids it. I think they are trying to avoid getting hurt?? Dont know.. I'll leave this to the trail experts out here! :lol:

[Hollis D. Gammon]

Just an opinion---

Water in a puddle is far different that a Big puddle, river, creek etc

This is a fear factor since she can see "no Bottom" and she doesn't trust you enough to make the decision "for her" you are not going into the water she is.

It will take time and lots of it. I use 3 approaches

1--walk her along the waters edge [assuming you have the space] turning left and right. try to encourage her to get a little deeper each pass. Some passes may have to make no gain at all. Stop let her stand in the water the take her to land. Repeat, repeat, repeat until she goes.
2--dismount lead her through the water crossing a few times. Mount while in the water and just stand then start the left - right sequence again. Repeat, Repeat, etc. I did this with 5 horses to get them to go out into the Gulf of Mexico
3--Pony her across not with a lead rope but following a horse across. After a few good crossings, let the lead horse cross or get further away then ask her to cross, increase the distance between horses until the lead horse is completely across then ask yours to cross. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

I've heard of some folks backing them across safe water, I wouldn't do it in deep water.

[Pasomom]

Welcome! Glad to have you here.

I agree, I think it is a fear issue. We had problems with our gelding, the other horses would go right in, and we couldn't get him withing 5 feet of the water. Then one time, we had a heavy rainey season, and the golf course across the street has a "low area" "sand pit" that got 8 to 12 inches of water in it. It had a clear bottom, so he could see the bottom. we basically used the same technique as Hollis....didn't take long since he could see the bottom, and he eventually went in and rode all over that low area. The other day we were riding and went down to the pond....and he walked right in and started splashing just like everyone else...... :lol:

[Boyd R]

I start in the arena. First thing is full and complete leading issues and space issues.
I like for them to lead at my shoulder at all times. Stopping and starting going over, threw, and around obstacles. Sending away and coming to me. Once this all is working good. I throw the lead over their back and expect all the same from them with no contact. Despooking is next. Plastic bags, spray bottles, sticks, bags on a stick, bag tied to their lead and let them drag it behind them. Blanket all over and under them ending up over their head and leading them with it over their eyes as if blindfolded.
Now that they fully trust and respect you. For this particular issue start with a large piece of black plastic on the ground. Walking them over it. Again both with lead contact and not. Then put something that they have to step over it and onto the plastic. Be creative. then dig out a ditch line it with the plastic and repeat. Then put some water in it.

Problem solved and you will look into their eyes and say was this all necesary.

[halfmoonfino]

Have you had her hocks and stifles checked? Sometimes when horses are sore or have arthritis/UFP or other conditions like that they'll refuse certain obstacles. There's a ASB/QH cross at the barn who has UFP (upward fixation of the patella or locked stifles) who has MAJOR difficulties on hills. He freaks out badly all because it makes him hurt (or he's afraid it will). You might get the vet to look at the hind end for problems. That's where I'd check first. Also pay special attention to saddle fit. If the saddle fits even slightly bad, going down a hill might exascerbate yor horse's discomfort.

If physical problems are ruled out, it might really be a fear issue. You can try digging VERY shallow ditches (like a 1-2 inch incline at first) and work on walking downand out of them. Reward your horse with a treat for her efforts and work your way up from there. Try taking treats with you on trails and giving her one from the saddle after she crosses ditches. Eventually she'll connect hills with positive things and lose her fear.

[porelamordepasofino]

try getting off of her and walking her through then get on her and walk her through it with you on her. She needs to know she can trust you.

[SandyMM]

However... be careful if you try leading her across as she may change her mind in an instant... I had a horse suddenly decide she _would_ cross and went straight over me in the process....

[darcy]

Do you feel it's more about the dropping down into the ditch or off the bank than the water itself? Do you ride in rough terrain very often? Perhaps she is not confident about carrying you down the incline or irregular footing and not about water at all. Can you lead her across any of these "obstacles"?

How old is your mare and how much riding time has she had?

[cowboy ed]

yes, that is what ms. daisey is saying here. it isnt the water, its the ditch. a change in terrain sometimes makes the horse think that he is about to step off into space. i think it is largely due to the horse's eyesight and poor depth perception.

ms. daisey, i am a firm believer that teaching your horse one rein stops/lateral flexion excercises is absolutely the best thing you can do in order to get the horse to relax and go forward when you encounter any obstacle, no matter if it is water, rough terrain, a hole, or a ditch.

if you would like to learn more about this, you can email me, whytrotfarms@yahoo.com, and i will be happy to send you some instructions that i have written. cowboy ed

[Terry Wallace]

Ed has 'er nailed here....

I would caution you NOT to get off and lead her through...stay ON.
You do not want her to panic and jump into the middle of you....

Take her to a place where you can cross water many times... Our favorite training ground here, is Dome Rock...16 water crossings of all types...from fetlock deep to chest deep..... From 2 feet wide to 10 feet wide. if you can, have another horse & rider go ahead of you...

[darcy]

DMD, can you lead your mare across these obstacles? I think some horses are so worried about unbalancing their rider that they balk at situations where that is likely to occur. My mare is one of these and has the tendency to stop moving if she feels that I am off balance at all. Granted I try to always ride balanced but I want her to know that just cause I'm shifting around doesn't mean it's her fault or that she is doing anything wrong. I can lead my mare through any obstacle but we are still working on many aspects of the mounted experience.

Ed, will you email me your lateral flexion exercise notes to davisda@animas.net

If anyone else has any other relaxation and trust building exercise for mounted work I would love to hear about them.

[CarolU]

Okay...I'm going to be different.

Horses have NO DEPTH PERCEPTION. To your mare that ditch (which may only be 3 inches deep) could be the grand canyon. She has no way of knowing this.

What you have is a trust issue. She needs to learn to trust your leadership, that you aren't going to take or make her go anywhere that could hurt her.

I would train this from the ground, BUT make sure your mare already knows to respect your space. This is important because they will jump INTO you, because you are the comfort zone. So, you need to teach her a STOP cue first (preferably 3 feet from you). I do this with a raised hand like a traffic cop.

Then you use a long lead and point her towards the ditch. Let her sniff it, let her back away from it, let her take her time. Meanwhile YOU jump back and forth over it, showing her it can be done. Gradually she'll relax a little...then start to pressure her ONLY when she backs or turns away. As long as she is faced across the ditch apply no pressure. Let this take as long as it takes. Eventually she will jump the ditch. Repeat the exercise several times until it is no big deal...then get on her and ride across the ditch several times. Lots of rewards.

Gradually increase the size of ditch.

Do the same thing with creek crossings. Let the horse cross a narrow portion first..where one foot gets wet...then two feet...then three...then more.

You are NOT teaching the horse to jump ditches and cross creeks. You are teaching the horse to trust you. Believe me, once you develop trust, you will cease training your horse to do obstacles....the horse will trust you in all new situations.

[SandyMM]

LOL - Greg says that Pete is just too smart to jump a ditch when there's another way around that doesn't involve getting his feet wet! Lately, though, Pete has grown up a lot and says that he doesn't mind the occasional water crossing....

[motorgypsy]

Leading does work well and following another horse works well. Lots of great advise given here.

We were at a hunter pace ride and Kyle had a tack malfunction and went back to the trailer with his horse. I went on to finish the ride. I came to an extremely steep downhill with a stream and mud at the bottom and an extremely steep uphill on the other side. It was very dark, lots of underbrush and very spooky. Kalua was not going down there. Luckily I had the rope halter under her bridle and a nice long pisador type lead on her so I was able to go to the bottom on foot and up behind a nice large tree before I coaxed her on down. It took perhaps ten minutes to get her to the bottom, then I went to the top again behind a nice large tree and she came up immediately with no problems. Of course the saddle twisted when I started to remount. Couldn't have been perfect could it???? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) But the point is you can lead them across an obstacle if they respect your space which most of ours do or if you have something substantial you can get behind so they can't run you down.

With a refusal at a water crossing when time is important and I must get across immediately I always dismount and string out the long lead I always carry. I signal for the horse to stay in place until I'm completely across and out of the way, then I signal where I want them to go across and I move forward as they move to be sure I don't get run down by accident. Of course I invariably end up with my boots full of water also. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Minouri]

I vote for it being a trust issue and requiring further training. Your horse doesn't believe you know if it's safe or not.

Never ask a horse to do what you know he cannot but do ask him to put aside his fears and do what you know he can.

There were some great suggestions on this board about how to desensitize your horse and get him/her to trust you. The one thing I'd add is that it's nice to have a good trainer or knowledgable person to show you when "desensitizing" is really just scaring the crap out of your horse. Some people don't know where that line is.