Saddle gullet sizes for Pasos

[LynnG]

Pasos come in alot of sizes and shapes. Saddle fit is always important. I was wondering how many folks have checked their saddle gullet size (inches) and compared it to their horse in that area?

What are some size gullets people's saddles have. I have a mare with high withers and it can be hard to get a saddle to suit her.

Funny girl... I was checking her out for any soreness her back and shoulder and then givin her a bit of a massage in those spots. She was
a liitle odd about it at first. I finished her and then proceeded to check with a schooling filly. Darn if the other mare just massaged didn't keep coming upand trying to get cozy with me.... she was at liberty in the paddock area. This was out of character for her. so...SHE LIKED IT! SHE LIKED IT!

I want to get in the habit more so of checking all the horses out before a ride or lesson this way (for tense muscular spots).

[CarolU]

Well, that is where 'buddy' horses scratch each other. I think it is kind of an erogenous zone for horses. One of the things I do with all horses I start in training is a full body rub, scratch, message, to find out where their sweet spot is. That is the spot I use to reward them when they've done something right. Of course, I have a couple who love EVERY spot rubbed and consequently they are the easiest to train.

I switched to treeless saddles so I don't have gullet problems anymore.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

Yeap Lynn, I also switch to TREELESS and my problems are all gone too.

I did have a sport saddle for about 4 years and just had to replace it 2 weeks ago.......... but wont go for anything else..... fits everyone that I ride.

Saludos

[Mellifluous]

treeless is not always the answer! I had the saddle fitter, Vicki come out and check saddle fit. I asked her about treeless. She told me that Phoebe would not be a good horse to use a treeless saddle with because she has a prominent backbone. Add to that the fact that I am a heavier rider and I would make her sore sore sore with a treeless.

Both of my saddles fit Phoebe fine. I have a wintec isabell with the changeable gullets. Right now Phoebe is in the black gullet (med narrow I think) - she will move up to blue (medium) as she fills out more. Vicki showed me how to keep an eye on fit.

Food for thought.

[LynnG]

Carol, I wasn't talking about the buddy scratch zones.... but where there are muscle tenseness "ouchy" spots probably due to saddle fit. Interestingly all 3 horses I worked on had some mid-level shoulder and lower back muscle quivers when palpated. They are feeling much better. 2 of them have high withers.

[Cindy]

I agree with that, Mel. There is a reason for the tree. :D

[Abejita]

Pasos come in alot of sizes and shapes. Saddle fit is always important. I was wondering how many folks have checked their saddle gullet size (inches) and compared it to their horse in that area?

for those of us who do not have 'the vicki" or another good saddle fitter in the area..what is the best way?use the wire shaping method and then see if it matches the saddle? I have a saddle right now that I THINK fits B ..I thought it might be pinching her a little just by running my hand under it but at the expo Nola said it fits her good..for now..I know she will fill out ..
I know about looking for spine clearance..and rocking..using the towel to test for bridging etc.but I am still a complete novice as far as how to really make sure a saddle fits..

and also as far as western saddles..semi QH bars..QH bars.. Full QH bars..then there are the gaited saddles with the shoulder being wider..its soo confusing!!

[LynnG]

I had a good chance of buying a used Corbette Dressage Saddle on ebay..and it was local too for pickup. The gullet was a 6". I measured my mare and asked the saddle owner exactly where she was measuring on the saddle for the gullet exactly. I didn't get a real precise answer, and I passed. She did say it had been tried on a horse with high withers once, and it was too narrow......that convinced me to pass.

I found a good saddle fitting article in my files from Orthoflex "For The Sake of Our Horses..Detecting The Early Stages of Saddle Soring in The Performance Horse". It says it was also reprinted in "Trail Blazer" magazine Dec. 1985-April 1986. It is a very long article in new tab size format. From reviewing it, you wouldn't want to buy a saddle without being sure it fit "sat right" on the horse first. It shows several trees and show how they can dig into the horse if not made right.

[Terry Wallace]

You got that right Mel...( & Vicki)... treeless saddle do not fit every horse.
Some treeless will also "perch" you far above your horse.
One of the worst fitting saddles I ever saw was an Orthoflex on a Paso, second worse was a Bob Marshall on an Arab..so it really depends on the horse's back as to what will fit best.

[Candice Burger]

Hey Lynn,

I've asked that for years trying to find out the "secret" of gullet sizes with little luck. I finally found some articles that explain gullet height and width that makes good sense. I've seen some recent ads for western saddles that claim 93 degree bar angle, like that explained everything!!

Gullet height and gullet width will be hard to measure once the saddle is built. Generally it is measured when the tree is rested on a flat surface with the bars resting on the surface. Gullet height is from the surface to the lip of the gullet in front. Gullet width is measured above the bars at the widest point. What I've found out is depending on the shape and angle of the bars will depend on the gullet height and width without changing the bar angle or size.

Here's some resources I highly recommend.
http://www.eclectic-horseman.com/newsletter/SaddlePart1.php
http://www.eclectic-horseman.com/newsletter/SaddlePart2.php
http://www.eclectic-horseman.com/newsletter/SaddlePart3.php

http://www.pvsaddleshop.com/BOOKS%20&%20VIDEOS.htm
The one on saddle construction explains it better.

http://www.leathercraftersjournal.com/saddletreeseries.html
I bought this last set of articles out of desperation and finally hit the jackpot. They explain everything!!!

I've looked into treeless saddles and agree with Cindy and Mel. There's a reason for having a tree when talking about weight distribution and protecting the spinal column if the horse has to carry more than a good rider. I've got a mare that would not do well with a treeless saddle because she does not have the muscle to protect the spine. A saddle tree would be more protective for her.

For English, I love my Passier saddles. They fit me and the horses pretty good. I use the old-time PST saddle tree that is wood with bamboo. What works for western, works for english too.

[CarolU]

An orthoflex is not a treeless saddle Terry, it is a flex-panel saddle and they are quite different then treeless saddles. I fully agree with you on the height problem...I rode in some and did not like that feeling at all.

For people who prefer trees and want some flexibility, the WIntec Issable Wirth has changeable gullets. I think they've added that feature to a few other of their saddles.

[Terry Wallace]

That is true Carol..my point being that even flex-tree saddles don't always fit "every" horse....

O.K...is that better?

[LynnG]

Thanks Candace for posting those links. I need to do some studies on my different adult horses and see how much variety they have in their backs. I think I will have quite the spectrum.......and then see what type would work best....take my studies and measurements/shapes to the horse show with alot of saddle vendors (Asheville) and just be comparing saddles more from the bottom side up.

I think many are in the dark when it comes to what gets measured where unless you can sit the saddle on the horse, and then sit in the saddle to see where the weight distribution goes.

ahhhhh...another project.

[Mellifluous]

There are specially designed gel pads on the market designed for evaluation of saddle fit. They will show you where the pressure points are.

[LynnG]

you can also look at the bottom side of used english leather saddles and look for discoloration... where the pressure areas are or aren't.

[Boyd R]

let me add a little here.

If you ride a lot of different horses and you can only own one saddle A treeless is your best choice. to give a horse the most comfort. A poor riding light rider bouncing up and down and poor seat can do more damage than a heavy rider with excelent seat.

Second choice for this person would be a flex panel saddle.

Third choice would be a fix tree saddle that is close fit for all horses being ridden.

Something that has to be considered is time in saddle. Light infrequent riding needs less saddle attention than say someone doing endurance riding that is on that horse for hours and hours each week.

Another important thing with panel and solid trees is if the saddle is made right. Ive seen a lot of top of the line saddles that are being made with twisted trees. or imbalanced flocking. Panel saddles that dont have countersunk bolts that hold those panels on. Imagine having a person on you back with all their weight being supported by 4 bolt heads digging in your back.

[Cindy]

If you ride a lot of different horses and you can only own one saddle A treeless is your best choice. to give a horse the most comfort.

Not going to argue this point and I respect your opinion, Boyd, but I disagree. The tree provides a valuable function and I would not ride without one. That is my opinion and I realize that that may not be the opinion shared by everyone else. Just wanted to state it.

[Boyd R]

I am talking horses comfort solely

[Cindy]

Me too.