Greg's new horse...

[SandyMM]

Just hangin' around the ring....
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GregBoo-1-53.jpg
A little readjustment.... on a gorgeous day!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GregBoo-2-68.jpg
Horse faster than photographer!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GregBoo-3-72.jpg
Cool day, intense horse, focused rider... not your typical trail pleasure Paso... ;-)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GregBoo-6-70.jpg

[lisa l aka marci]

That is great Greg and Sandy!!!!!

Looks like he will be fun!

[CarolU]

Well, looks like Greg is having fun! Is Boo all black or is he a seal bay? How old and are we going to be seeing Greg in the Fino A/O Stallions class this summer?

And one other question...what is that headgear? Is that a mechanical hackamore or hack/bit combination? How does it work?

You know Sandy, I honestly am blown away by this! ;-) I just can't wrap my mind around a Fino stallion owned by the "Largo Rules and Fino Drools" lady. ;-)

Congratulations...and have fun with him. That's what it is all about.

[AprilH]

What saddle is that? It looks like it would be comfortable and allow you to sit down good in the seat. BTW your horse is gorgeous!!

[baileyholc]

Congradulations! He is beautiful. :razz:

[Brigitte]

No full body pics?
He looks really nice! Congrats

[Dave]

Greg, you and Boo are loookin' goood!!!!

[PasoPerson38]

Wow what a hunk!
Stunning head and hair!! :D

[JennLM]

more more more more pics pleaseeeeee

[SandyMM]

Boo is a dark bay, he looked almost black this past winter, but has shed out bay. He is definitely well-bred fino bred, but with the way classes are judged these days... who knows.

His breeding isn't what attracted Greg to him - it was his on-the-ground disposition and his power under saddle. They really bonded. It is a rush to ride him from the look on Greg's face and the ear-to-ear grin, but there is a lot of work to be done and serious 'issues' from his earlier years to be resolved. I don't ride him - my legs aren't long enough and my center of gravity isn't low enough to stay in the saddle during some of these 'issues'... ;-) His current training headgear is transitional to allow him to be ridden/conditioned safely and lightly as these issues are resolved. Don said yesterday he may be ready to step down a notch - which would be a huge indication that true progress is being made. And since he has done such a great job mentoring/training both Pete and Greg, we'll go with any and all recommendations.

The saddle is a Timberline - not sure which model. I wasn't sure how I felt about these saddles (thought I would feel perched - but I don't) until I rode Don's (he is sponsored by Timberline). Greg was adamant that he wouldn't like it - until he rode Boo in it - _very_ secure which is an especially good thing at this point! I think we are converts. Not saying it's necessarily the perfect saddle/model for _all_ horses, but since it works very well on Emi, too, Greg and I will probably be fighting over who gets to ride it until we get our own at some point. Of course, Don might have _something _ to say about it since it _is_ his saddle.... :D

As to full body shots - LOL - it was all I could do to get _any_ pics! He's _very_ fast, very hot, very 'active', and doesn't stand well (yet) for many 'pretty' shots. We'll be documenting his progress and there will be more pics as he and Greg progress.

[Red Ryder]

Owning a fino stallion myself, I can honestly say there is no better feeling than when I'm riding him.

The power I feel, the knowledge of what he's doing [and that you are riding a horse the maybe only 5 to 10% of the breed can truly Fino], and the look at me attitude he has just blows my mind. {Of course getting all the photos, movies and fingers pointing at him don't hurt an old show off like me either*** Greg will feel the same way shortly*** ]

He feels like he will explode any minute, yet never does.

Of course he can Corto and Largo his stride is just not nearly as long as some other horses.

And yes I trail ride him. It's so much fun to just go out and ride with a group and when we come to the first rest stop, and they dismount,take him down to fino and watch the reaction.

All Horses [not just pasos] are a joy to me, and Pasos are the ones I enjoy most, and my stallion is my most joy. The closest I've ever had
the same joy as riding "Pooh" was Andante De Besilu, and Barbara Priess
Fino Plebeyo Son.

Fino horses have their place just like all others. It's whatever brings you the most pleasure.

You GGGGGOOOOO Greg and enjoy the high!!!!! Someday maybe we can swap mounts for a few moments.

[Terry Wallace]

very cool horse...he does indeed look like a power-house.
I really like the last pic.

I'm a little shocked to see a bare metal nose piece....as I have read how you feel about metal on a horse. ;-)

Could we have a shot of the headgear? I cannot quite make it out...is it all attached? Nose, bit & long shanks...all one piece?

[Brigitte]

very cool horse...he does indeed look like a power-house.
I really like the last pic.

I'm a little shocked to see a bare metal nose piece....as I have read how you feel about metal on a horse. ;-)

Could we have a shot of the headgear? I cannot quite make it out...is it all attached? Nose, bit & long shanks...all one piece?

It is a bit with a nose band attached. Don't know how to describe it. I've seen them before, they're not harsh or anything. They could be I guess, but the horses I've seen respond well in them

[SandyMM]

I'm a little shocked to see a bare metal nose piece....as I have read how you feel about metal on a horse.

:roll: Really... then you _must_ also know that we would never use - or allow to be used - anything that wasn't necessary, effective, and humane - for the safety of both horse and rider. I, of course, am most concerned for Greg's safety; he, however, is most concerned for Boo's safety.

[Red Ryder]

Greg could have Barbwire [the real thing] around the horses nose and he would never feel it. Just look at the reins how loose in Gregs hands

I'll say it for the millionth time " no bit or head gear is harsh. It's the riders hands".

I totally agree one needs to "have available" what ever one need for saftey.

I ride "Pooh" with a crop in hand do I whip him with it no. All I have to do is flick it out so he can see it and I've got a different horse . Same with any head gear, so long as they know it's there you probably want need to use it.

I personally think we take all of this harshness a bit too far, why do we wear helmets?? Just in case right??

Now shouldn't we be addressing the horse photos instead ?????????

[Terry Wallace]

yes...right.

Oops..forgot this.... :roll:

[SandyMM]

First - let me thank all of you who posted kind words about Greg's new horse, Bucanero. Greg has been working all weekend out of state and hasn't seen the pix or posts yet.

Thanks especially, for your post, Hollis, because it's clear you understand what every competent and experienced horseman should know, that every horse and rider combination needs what works best for them on any given day. No more, no less than what it takes for appropriate communication and safety. If that most basic concept escapes a trainer/rider/owner, then no amount of explaining will ever be enough.

For the record, Boo is _nothing_ like what _I_ prefer to breed for - but then, he isn't mine. He 'picked' Greg to bond with months ago and Greg takes that responsibility to heart. It is very much like my relationship with Bronce - who _needs_ me more so than any of our other horses. If you don't know about _that_ bond, I can only say - it's a strong one. I hope some day Greg and Boo can go public to strut their stuff. They'll be an inspiration to those who know their story.

Finally, the only 'shocking' thing I see in this thread are the public negative posts/insinuations - once again - inappropriate at best in a celebratory post about a board member's new horse. I see a pattern...

[CarolU]

All I asked was what it was and how it worked.

Is it possible to get a picture of it not on the horse and a description of how it works?

How does it work to cure bucking (I'm guessing bucking is the "issue" he has...no acusation there...I'm just guessing.). If not bucking, then how is it used to cure whatever the "issue" is?

Perhaps in the training and tack forum, if innapropriate here?

[SandyMM]

Perhaps Greg will want to discuss his horse's issues publicly, that isn't for me to say. I think he just wants people to be happy for him and his new horse.

I will not discuss tack publicly or in detail as what is being used is highly specialized for very specific circumstances. Suffice to say, the shanks are legal length, there are no rough edges, and no marks of any kind are evident during or after use. Refer to the loose reins in the 4th picture...

I will say again, our first concern is Greg's safety followed closely by Boo's safety. We would prefer that people not try to second guess what we are working on. We already have an extremely knowledgeable and compassionate trainer working with Greg and Boo - when the time is right, they'll be happy to show off their own fine selves... :-)

[CarolU]

Whatever. :roll:

[Kerry W]

I'm a bit shocked about the whole fino thang...but Greg looks so happy, I can see why you are so happy for him. Congrats, and best wishes! :D

[Terry Wallace]

Whoa..now wait just a darn minute.... Bucanero is indeed a fine looking animal.... I am very GLAD Greg is happy to get him.

On a differnt note... I see a pattern here too.... and it has to do with TACK..not the horse. Highly specialized? I think not.... thats all...

The horse is gorgeous....

I'd love to see the tack...the nose piece for sure..its new to me to see this type of tack used on a Paso Fino...makes me wonder WHY and thats all...

Out here... we call that kind of tack a "bear trap" .... after all your protesting on metal tack on show horses...I was surprised to say the least...to see that on your new horse.... so EDUCATE us as to why you would need such a thing... thats all..... is this the new "all the rage" type of "nose gear".....?

[SandyMM]

The horse is gorgeous....

Thank you.

[SandyMM]

Thanks, Kerry. I have better pix of Boo, but Greg's hair was a little out of place and they both must look near-perfect to pass inspection... ;-)

[Kerry W]

Bad hair days suck! :lol: Maybe you should get some Pink for Greg and Boo...they can share a bottle. :lol:

[Primroseddp]

well well first let me say the reason you have not seen this bit is because it IS specialized or you would have already seen it and you would know what it is Terry W. you guys make most trainers laugh because it is very clear how little you really know, by the way you talk and tear people down , people get on this forum and try to share their prized horses [ Boyd,Greg] and you people tear them down , you tear there horse's down are make a big deal out of everything , heck like you would know anything. The reason I don't tell everyone everything is because like you and your beartrap statement you would not know how to use these items, and would stop some one else from using them because of your lack of training and your dumb statements, have you ever thought that most trainers do not get on hear because they get tired of hearing people that think they can train try and argue with what they say and when they try to tell someone how to fix a problem oh it's not right it,s not natural, shocker people THERE IS NO NATURAL NONE , and anything you do can be severe from those bad rope halters as I heard one person say to snaffle bits that i have seen used.Just because you get paid from someone to sit on a horse does not make you a trainer, Its what you know and how you use the tools you have. So Terry let people enjoy their animals and be happy for them and the fun they have !!!!!

[CarolU]

So Don...you wouldn't care to 'enlighten us' with a picture and a description of how this device works. After all, we've only trained horses for 80 years between the two of us and never used such a device.

That is all I'm asking for...pictures and a description of what it does and why you use it.

[ErinC]

Congrats!
Cant wait to see him show him off, she sure looks pretty.
but Sandy I hope he does nto try to trail ride with you!
LOL, you will have to circle back to pick him up ! ;-)

Greg looks very happy, and Don I agree, we all should lighten up a tad, and just enjoy what God has given us!

[CarolU]

Let me try it this way...

If this is such a benign piece of tack, then there should be no problem in sharing pictures with us of it and how it works.

Right?

[SandyMM]

Less is more
Less is more
Less is more.... nope doesn't work.

Carol and Terry.... have you noticed that _only_ you two have been demanding and negative? People notice....

Members can't even post their good fortune here without being interrogated. I knew I would get the Inquisition, but I posted pix anyway because anybody on this board ought to be able to share the good that happens to them. You need to back off and let the rest of us enjoy....

[pnalley]

Very nice!

Did I miss a post about how he is bred? He has a lovely head. The saddle does look secure, and comfortable. Are the Timberline carried at any tack stores, or are they a specialty item?

[Primroseddp]

Carol as i stated before just because you set on a horse and think your a trainer does not make you a trainer ,if you would like to learn then come down pay my fees for learning and learn! Also as i stated ii am not going to give you something to talk about when in reality you do not know what in the hecccck your doing except run your lips to hear your self talk when your tring to bully people into believing what your saying ,dang Sandi AND Lori are going to be mad


Lori i tried to be quiet but got tired of hearing there crap about something they would and do not know, sorry!

[Kerry W]

Very nice!

Did I miss a post about how he is bred? He has a lovely head. The saddle does look secure, and comfortable. Are the Timberline carried at any tack stores, or are they a specialty item?

Riley Kester sells them, Paula...among other things. I just got a new headstall/bit hanger from him...they're great...Riley is great! :D

[CarolU]

Less is more
Less is more
Less is more.... nope doesn't work.

Carol and Terry.... have you noticed that _only_ you two have been demanding and negative? People notice....

Members can't even post their good fortune here without being interrogated. I knew I would get the Inquisition, but I posted pix anyway because anybody on this board ought to be able to share the good that happens to them. You need to back off and let the rest of us enjoy....

Sandy, I have not said ONE THING negative about that device.!!!! :duh I can't. I don't know what it is!!! All I asked was to see what it is and a description of how it works! WHY are you all so DEFENSIVE about it???? What is wrong with it that you are afraid to show us?

And...to be TOTALLY honest, I love the horse, am delighted Greg bought him and is happy with him. I already said all that.

Remember, I'm just a dumb hick out here in the sticks and have no idea what this specialized equipment is, what it looks like, or how it works.

So teach me. That is ALL I'm asking.

[SandyMM]

Did I miss a post about how he is bred?
Here's the link to his pedigree:
http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?ID=99653

[Serendipity]

great horse Greg and Sandy,you lucky dog you!
I'll be inspecting him fully next week end but don't get to busy with him I still expect ;-) you to help my with Piloto in Bella Forma.

Can't wait to see you guys!!

[SandyMM]

No problem - Greg will already be there and you can see Boo for yourself Saturday... ;-)

[Rafael Arbelo]

Sandy MM ... Thanks

[cowboy ed]

wow! good looking horse from what i can see! ya'll have fun with him, ok?

[Heidi]

If this is such a benign piece of tack, then there should be no problem in sharing pictures with us of it and how it works.
Actually, I think it may be dangerous.
To give this specialized knowledge, of which I am certain requires excessive feel/timing/sensitivity, things that can't be TOLD and must be FELT and LEARNED over time...to try to write about it to educate could possibly put dangerous and incomplete information (from the limits of the printed word to the limits of the person reading's understanding of the printed word) into someone's hands and seriously injure either themselves or another horse with incomplete information.

Perhaps a photo and brief bit about how it works for THIS horse, who is clearly going through a transition designed for rider/horse safety, but I do not think this type of bridle is appropriate for 99.9% of the horses/riders out there and it requires a person who knows what they are doing with said bridle to achieve the goal and not harm the horse.

Besides, why should trainers give their tips for free? That is their livlihood. Pay and learn, though it is VERY nice when they do share and I appreciate it.
Heidi

[echo]

Congratulations, Greg, on your new horse. He looks beautiful, though you know we need some more photos! I find that a good Paso Fino, regardless of "show division", is a thrill to ride. I enjoy an excellent pleasure horse as much as a performance or fino horse, and I would LOVE to have a fino horse to compete. I completely understand how Greg was "smitten" by a handsome fino stallion. Regarding the Timberline saddles, I had the same experience. Other panel type saddles felt "perchy". The Timberline, oddly enough, feels more "normal" and you can still feel what's going on with your horse. It's the only panel type saddle I liked enough to buy, and I've tried most of the other brands.

[Mellifluous]

#1 - That horse is beeeeautiful
#2 - Way to go Greg!
#3 - How do you get a Timberline sponsorship? They need to sponser someone riding a paso in distance riding. :D I would wear their logo on my forehead if I had to. :razz:

Oh, and Sandy, I was thinking about the fino vs largo thing. Are you guys going to get one of those "a house divided tags?" One side with a finoing horse and the other with a largoing? They seem to be all the rage around here with UGA fans that are married to TN or FL fans. :razz: Just modify it for pasos. ;-)

I still have to say that I LOVE Bronce. I think he would be my favorite at you guys stable.

[CarolU]

Carol as i stated before just because you set on a horse and think your a trainer does not make you a trainer ,if you would like to learn then come down pay my fees for learning and learn! Also as i stated ii am not going to give you something to talk about when in reality you do not know what in the hecccck your doing except run your lips to hear your self talk when your tring to bully people into believing what your saying ,dang Sandi AND Lori are going to be mad

Lori i tried to be quiet but got tired of hearing there crap about something they would and do not know, sorry!

Don, I guess it's OK for YOU to personally attack me and be rude and offensive???? Which I have not been to you.

I am more then a little tired of it. Get off my case. You may train full time, and I may train part time, you don't have to think I'm a trainer, but I don't think people who use such shortcuts to real training are "horse trainers" either. If this thing is as Briggette described and Terry is horrified by, I wouldn't WANT it with 100 yards of my horses.

Now THIS man is a "trainer" in every sense of the word:
http://www.americanpasofinos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12633&start=0

And I can guarentee you that when I spend money to learn more, it is from real "horsemen," those who I respect.

But, I do want to thank you for something. When I've complained before about this kind of tack, I've been essentially called a liar because "no one would use it," where was my "evidence." Now you've got pictures here for everyone to see that YES, some "trainers" really DO use it.

So...where is the show steward?

[swaite]

BEAUTIFUL horse! Enjoy :D

[Abejita]

what I want to know..Is poor Pete crying in the corner because daddy got a new horse??

[Terri]

Sandy wrote:
I think he just wants people to be happy for him and his new horse.

Well, I AM HAPPY FOR HIM. what a great looking horse!!!! How'd I miss this post before? Congratulations Sandy and Greg. I know you will love him and take wonderful care of him. He is wicked pretty!!!!!!

[pnalley]

Is there any chance at all that you guys will agree to disagree and give it a rest?

This post was started because someone was excited to get a new horse.

None of us agree with each other all the time. If this thread is bothering you DON'T read it. Please.

Go out and hug your horses, and just shake it off! :roll:

[Primroseddp]

well carol first i have trained all my life and have learned from the best in the world not just the new wantabes tring to find a way to market themselfs, first off you do not know the horse or how dangerous the horse was are could be . you do not know the bit you do not know how Greg rides are you would not be tring to make this an issue, you do not run people down or their training down read your post with an open heart ,everyone else knows you do , just because you feel you know the right way , the way you train might work for you but my clients expect more than a maybe. My horses speak for themselves and so do my clients, my horses love and respect me being respect is the most important and they mind , i guess thats why they do not trot around the fairgounds, they ride like they are suppose to , Carol i do not have to get on here and scream about my training or the wrong or right way because what might work for me some people could not understand , Hell Sandi would not let me near one of her horses if one they were shortcuts, two if what i did hurt her horses in anyway and three if my way does not work.. and fourth people do pay me for one hour half a day and by the month , there are lot more expected out of my horses than yours after all they compete in nat and inter nat and world class shows and do very well, and they love me as has been posted many times here, and you and Terri asume that this piece of headgear is horrorific then really do not understand its correct use and do not need it in your barn, i would say not one on this forum has ever seen or dealt with a horse exept Cindy because most would not know how them . I would pay to see you or Terri on this animal you would both need new wear

[SandyMM]

but I don't think people who use such shortcuts to real training are "horse trainers" either. If this thing is as Briggette described and Terry is horrified by, I wouldn't WANT it with 100 yards of my horses.
Well, you have now shown everybody _exactly_ the ulterior motives you had for demanding more pictures and information - and why I was right to hesitate to post any pictures. This is just one in a long line of posts that have gone from celebratory to the the trash heap because of unsolicited opinions...

I don't know if you have ever seen or trained a horse like Boo - and you don't either, because you have only seen a few photos. There are _no_ shortcuts with this horse - it has already been over a two year process just to get to where he is now - just safe enough for Greg to ride him under direct supervision. How presumptuous of you to assume you have the only 'right' method for retraining this horse. You use what you think works for you and stop making blanket statements about situations you have no personal knowledge of.... It sure has taken the fun out of sharing a new horse... :roll:

[Terry Wallace]

Where the notion came from that I am horrified buy the head gear...I do not know! I'm not horrified...just to clarify! AND...don't think for one minute that I have no concept of how it works...especially if it is a metal nose band, attached with a long shanked bit, with a crub chain underneath.

Mr. Primrose... I didn't tear anybody down... and I sure didn't attack anybody like YOU did me...

I have only been training about 25 years...and I can guarantee you I have never needed to use any kind of domination headgear...
OR...short cut type of training gear...I take LOTS of time....we.....you & I... train differently to be sure.

As for me, I always do what I feel is best for the horse...PERIOD.

BUT..you can go ahead and think what you want..it don't bother me in the least. For me..the horse's safety and comfort comes first and formost.

[CarolU]

Don...you have no idea who I am, how I train, how I ride, what horses I've ridden before (all over the country), or if I needed a change of underwear after riding them. You assume SO MUCH.

I never said anything negative to/or about you, and yet YOU attacked ME. And for what reason?

Yes, I've met some of your clients. Nuff said.

[SandyMM]

If this thing is as Briggette described and Terry is horrified by, I wouldn't WANT it with 100 yards of my horses.
Y'all need to get over it... We will agree that safety comes first. We will never agree on methods.

domination
LOL! It's _all_ 'domination'! Horses always have a pecking order (that's the 'natural' way, you know...) - you're either above or below.... It may be close - 51-49, but somebody had _better_ be in charge! Some people just can't bring themselves to admit it out loud.

Let's see - this _was_ about Greg being happy to have a new horse - and I can guarantee the horse is thrilled to have Greg.

[Pasogirlz]

It doesn't pay for me to enjoy my weekend. :roll:
I'm glad I waited to check the internet until after I enjoyed the beach today. :-?

You guys do have a way of taking the fun otta things. I must admit, I haven't posted a lot of pix of my horses lately.... :confused
You just never know when you might be using the wrong halter, bit, saddle, or safety gear. :roll:

[SandyMM]

As for me, I always do what I feel is best for the horse...PERIOD.
And yet - you criticize others for doing _exactly_ the same thing...

[Terry Wallace]

Sandy...give it a rest...just WHERE did I criticize anybody? I think if you read back throught these threads..it is YOU twisting things up...not me, not Carol, or anybody else.... then Don jumped right in on the attack....

I was just stating a FACT.... get over it.

[Pasomom]

Terry W. There was a strong inuendo in your statement that SandyMM quoted meaning that "someone else" didn't take the horses' best interest at heart...... ...thats where you criticized someone......

I am very tired of all the petty arguments we have seen on the board here lately.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT TACK OR TRAINING ISSUES. IT WAS NOT POSTED IN THE TRAINING FORUM. DO NOT BE ASKING QUESTIONS OR MAKING COMMENTS ON WHAT TACK SOMEONE IS USING ON THEIR HORSE UNLESS IT IS ASKED FOR IN THE TRAINING FORUM.

If you have a legitimate question, you may use the PM feature to ask that person if they would like to share information with you. Other than that, keep you opinions to yourself on the open forum.

NOW< Sandy and Greg, I am so happy for you both, and I know you will really enjoy Boo. It is nice to have both fino and largo in your stable, and even a little Trote y galope is fun too. ;-) Your boy's in good hands and I am sure you will have many years of wonderful riding with Boo.

[Serendipity]

Again I am really glad Greg got his new horse I hope that if is half as good as Pete(could never be better than Pete ;-) )

Than on a general note to all---Sandy and Greg have found a trainer that they like and respect just as we all have or will at some time. Saying anything even slightly negitive about someones trainer (even if not ment that way) is like fighting words like kids in schools"your mama wheres combat boots" thing. the trainer/client bond is very close.So it is of couse easy to see how some got offended.

Tack like this belongs in trainers hands only or under the supervision of one.the reason it is not explained is because the general public could easly misuse it. if you truely want to know how it works I'd PM the trainer or call but if you've never used it or can't think of a use for it its mostly best left to the trainer and to just stick with what works for you.

Please remember to be a horse trainer take year and years of experance and God love them for the rest of us that need them.I believe there is not one trainer out there that does not have at least one mark against them,from a client conflict or who know what else. Its a hard job and the percks are not always so nice. But hats off to the Trainers for the job they do.

and last but not least Lets be positive to our APF family if some one gets a new horses be happy for them and the horse.If they are asking questions about whats used on the horse then by all means give your opionions but if its just a post to show off let that person have the glory day is a "big"decision to buy a horse or to rescue one on some cases.

[Pasomom]

Thank you Serendipidy, Very nicely said.

I was just too tired after a long weekend to put it into such elequent terms. Plus I didn't know if that would get the job done ! :-? Sometimes you just have to live up to your signature ;-)

[Primroseddp]

some thing i really did not want to talk about out of respect for greg but he told me to go ahead , first off let me tell a story its about a horse and a human, there names are boo and greg, boo was and could still be a very dangerous horse, boo spent his life getting people off his back are scaring the hell out of them , some of his fun was rearing straight up and throwing himself backward, landing on his back ,head or rider, another one is to be going at a fast largo which he can do and well then ducking his head between his legs and whipping his rear like a whip , which most people and trainers found frighting , every once in a while he would throw him self to the ground,or another one is to take of as a run away and to try a one rein stop meant he would throw himself on the ground are just walk right through it like it was nothing .i saw him in one of his moments and what was happening to him from the person training him, i felt i could bring him around so i bought him, and that my friends was approx 4 years ago, he has come a long way but not totatly there yet, he was stalled next to pete ,gregs gelding, greg had seen me work him in the arena and you could tell he wanted to ride him . i was leary of letting him but greg is getting pretty good in is riding so i thought i would keep him in a small space so i could control what was happening , at that time it was amazing seeing all the work i had done come through , i saw a horse that was letting a rider control him but most of all liking it , after awhile greg look at me and said let me take him out of here and walk around the training track, you must remember greg did not know of his past , so i felt he had done so well and had no fear of what he might do , well the horse would not feed off his fear and maybe learn to like this and he did the ride greg had was great , not until after he got back and was on the ground did i tell of his past to a degree, well since that day greg spent time with pete first then boo, you could tell there was a bond ,even my five year old grandaughter kept telling me we had to give boo to mr. greg because boo loves him, well if you ask my grandaughter she would tell you she is my asst. trainer and should have an input into what goes on with our horses, well being told this for quiet some time , but i couild not due to my fear that boo would go back to his past behavior and i would not want to put greg are boo in any danger or harm as they are both my friends, one night greg came to the barn rode pete did great and then wanted to ride boo , i said okay he first rode in the arena then took him out on the track and at the point you saw a horse give a human his heart and a human give a horse his heart as well , greg first rode in fino giggling then let him out in a flying largo and then you heard greg laugh out loud, i just wished he was in a class it was great, i new i loved the horse a great deal and he respected me and worked for me but he gave his heart to greg totaly and so when they got back i told greg what i felt and me and my asst was giving boo to him , because they were worthy of each other there both great, boo is in a very slow forward progress not a shortcut method , the bit everyone is so worried about is nothing more then a combo broken bit to help assure that if greg got in trouble or if boo decided to go a little backward then greg would have a little help , this bit is in no way harmful to these two , i did not feel i need to explain because the owners of the horse knew what and why we used this bit , plus i did not watn to encourge the use of this bit to everyone after all this is not the training area and this is not what this post was about ,i read the post from carol u want to know where the show steward was well this bit is not illegal, the shanks are not but 5 and a half in long it is a training bit not a show bit .i felt if they were a trainer they would are should know what it is and not the horrfic thing from hell like people are acting like , it is real silly guys, after all it is about greg loving his horse and his horse loving him and both of them being happy and content

[Heidi]

...i new i loved the horse a great deal and he respected me and worked for me but he gave his heart to greg totaly
...this post was about...greg loving his horse and his horse loving him and both of them being happy and content
Bravo! Bravo! That was a wonderful story!

[Terri]

Nicole, Don, Pasmom....ALL VERY WELL SAID!!! When a person gets a new horse it is like having a new baby. You want to show your pictures and have all your friends tell you what a beautiful baby she/he is and to share your joy. Not to look at the pictures and question the clothes the baby is wearing. Well, Sandy and Greg I do share your joy and excitement. Boo is a beautiful horse and it sounds like he has found his prefect home. So he is a very lucky horse, often horses who have developed the issues you decribed end up in bad places. You have my respect and admiration from bringing him home and loving him. Please keep us up to date on his progress and post losts of pictures, I like to look at them!

[Mellifluous]

That IS a wonderful story.

A rearing horse is a VERY dangerous thing. I have a mare that used to do the same thing. Once they learn that, it is so hard to break them of it. Most people give up. Kudos to you for sticking with it and not giving up on the horse like so many others would. :D

Gosh, I can remember all of the strange things people told me to use with my mare. Warm water balloons, eggs, 2x4s. All of them requiring me to put myself in harm's way to "cure" the problem.

Good job fellas!!!!

[CarolU]

Thank you Don for clarifying why you are using the tack. That was part of the original question.

Since nobody seems willing to leave this thread alone, I want to clear something up. I asked NICELY 5 times about this tack with no negative inuendos to or about anyone OR the tack. In my 2nd request I asked the discussion be moved to the Training Forum if innapropriate here...and asked the same question there. I got no answer there, instead anger about asking. And other people have posted there asking the same question. So it IS in the Training Forum.

Go back and read it all again before ya'll jump all over me!!!

Instead of answer a simple question, Don attacked ME personally 3 times. Why? He called me stupid, my questions stupid, my training methods stupid, telling me I just sit on a horse. Those were PERSONAL attacks against me, and YES I finally replied personally! I don't see Don (who is the Forum leader) over there attacking the other people who asked the same question.

Personal attacks are innappropriate no matter WHO it is directed against! It's also against the rules...or do they only apply to certain people?

[pnalley]

Thanks Paso Mom for getting the attention of the posters!

What a great story! Don, how awesome that you were able to help this horse, and even better that your assistant trainer knew just who needed to own the horse ;-)

[Linda Y]

5 pages of forum could have been saved if this story would have been told in the first place. It is not a tale of too much bit, it is one of saving a horse and matching it with the right person. Granted, that is a LOT of bit...not one I would ever use...but in this case it was maybe a correct tool.
I hope that we will soon see a happy horse transitioning to a regular headgear, and an equally happy rider enjoying him.

[Terry Wallace]

Yep..that IS a great story on Boo... its very rewarding when a horse makes great strides in trust & understanding.

Sounds a lot like a horse I have here...he likes to buck everybody off that tries to get on him, or he will back up 100 miles an hour and throw his rear end around. He is here for a re-train, a restart, and some understanding. Luckily..he has never even tried to do that with me. AND Don...in case you are wondering or doing some more assuming......nope, I have not ever had to change my underwear on any horse I ever got on...including the wildest of BLM mustangs ;-)

Kudos for your efforst on settling this horse down on the re-train. ;-)

[TrueStepPaso]

I just wanted to say, that this about sums it up for me....



To give this specialized knowledge, of which I am certain requires excessive feel/timing/sensitivity, things that can't be TOLD and must be FELT and LEARNED over time...to try to write about it to educate could possibly put dangerous and incomplete information (from the limits of the printed word to the limits of the person reading's understanding of the printed word) into someone's hands and seriously injure either themselves or another horse with incomplete information.

Perhaps a photo and brief bit about how it works for THIS horse, who is clearly going through a transition designed for rider/horse safety, but I do not think this type of bridle is appropriate for 99.9% of the horses/riders out there and it requires a person who knows what they are doing with said bridle to achieve the goal and not harm the horse.

Besides, why should trainers give their tips for free? That is their livlihood. Pay and learn, though it is VERY nice when they do share and I appreciate it.
Heidi


SO TRUE! Writing down training instructions is the palest of pale in comparison to instructing face to face, hands on, through feel, and over a period of days, maybe weeks, months, years.....however long it takes.

And Sandy......congrats for Greg and Boo!!!! :D That horse is quite the looker! How special that they "clicked" just right.... ;-)

[SandyMM]

Thanks - we appreciate the kind words. Boo is a very special horse to all of us.

[Carol Nelson]

THAT story brought tears to my eyes....

[Tiffer]

Me too! Congratulations to all who have been touched by "Boo"....he is some special horse and I can hear the Greg-giggles all the way up here in MA!!! :smile: :smile: :smile:

[Barbwire]

I didn't have time to read all the poo-poo ka-ka posted here, but I just want to say "Way to go, Greg, that's a mighty fine hoss ya got thar." 8-)

[motorgypsy]

Sandy - congratulations to you and Greg. He looks like a wonderful horse!! I know you'll have a fantastic time with him. From people who have an attraction to - shall we say - "spicier" horse - we can appreciate the problem and the need for a safe solution to it. also but they are worth the trouble - for any of you who saw the Rodeo Queen at the Atlanta Parade - she is now worth her weight in gold.

A question for everyone - have you ever seen a pinch collar for dogs? We saw one in a pet store and they looked very nasty but we tried it on ourselves (on our arm, not neck) and read up on them and decided to try one on our goats (200 pounds of very determined doe to be precise). Well it was a miracle thing. That doe walked beside us like she had been leash trained her whole life. it did not make a mark on her and she got lots of carrots for doing so well. The point is you can use may things for training purposes in a human or inhumane way. The raised scars on one of my mare's noses tells me a metal band was used inhumanely on her. I will never approve of that but the pinch collar and other devices that use the same principle do not injure the animal and make a huge difference in behavior. Yes I could have spent a month leash training the goat but I needed her on a least immediately and the collar was amazing so I also would like to see the headgear to study just how it works and where it's pressure points are.

Carol I did not perceive anything but curiosity in your post about it but then perhaps it's because we know you personally and know you are another info junkie with intense curiosity about everything.

It would be helpful if we didn't read things into posts that aren't there and if they are there - well we sure don't all agree on things in here thank goodness.

Thanks Don for sharing the great story. Your "assistant trainer" sounds like a real "keeper"!! Lucky you!!

For those of you that get the emails from I think it's Horse City or one of the other big horse forums they had a great article in there on horses who rear and flip themselves over. It said it is an inherited trait and that it can be prevent from the beginning if almost no pressure is put on the head during training. I saw a zorse foal do the same thing. Some horse are hard wired to flip from excessive pressure on the head and nose. I'll try to find the article and post. It was fascinating.

[SandyMM]

Gotta love a man who loves his horse, and a horse with 'issues' who really cares about his rider.... ;-)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GB-10-DCP_2741.jpg
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GB-9-DCP_2743.jpg

[Terri]

He is beautiful! But I am kinda biased toward black horses. Thank you for sharing these pictures, makes me start dreaming of summer riding!!!

[Brigitte]

Very nice!

[pnalley]

They look good together!

What is on the areana walls? It looks like belting of some sort.

[SandyMM]

He is beautiful! But I am kinda biased toward black horses. Thank you for sharing these pictures, makes me start dreaming of summer riding!!!
All winter long we thought he _was_ black, but as he has shed out we see he is a very dark bay.... still a handsome horse! I'll try to post pix of his mane - past his shoulder - when I can get some sunshine here!

[CarolU]

I don't know Sandy, I think he looks like Zar...fading black. Bays have brown around their muzzle and more around their flanks. Those pictures are small, but his muzzle looks solid black.

What is he resistered as? I'll bet 'black.'

BTW - he looks very nice.

[GregM]

Thank you all for the supportive comments, I am sure we will be learning a lot from Boo as I have very little time in the saddle on a Fino horse. We have had a few really good rides and a hiccup or two but it's all been fun. I have snuck out on the little trail out behind the barn once already, and he did very well. Even got a little fino ride in a halter.

Watch this space, you may get sick of hearing from us. And don't worry, Pete still gets his fair share of wet saddle blankets. I would post some new picks of him, but I seem to be stuck with dial-up this trip. He's become quite comfortable leading small group trail rides and learned to wear trail boots on the mountain (any one looking for "easy" boots might want to check out the Cavallo Simple Horse Boots, they come Pete-approved). It sure is awfully nice to be able to ride so conveniently, one trail right next door and two more within 5-15 miles. Our horsekeeping sure has changed in six months.

Taca-taca.

[SandyMM]

Boo is:
http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?ID=99653

Pete is also a direct male line Plebeyo grandson.
So not to slight Pete:
http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?ID=119967

[pnalley]

Greg, Sandy,
My mare Nieve (avatar) is a granddaughter of Lunares. Carol Thomas speaks really highly of this line. I remember her telling me they really take care of you on a trail, good sense, careful etc.

[motorgypsy]

Chinook is a Plebeyo grandaughter. HMMMM He does seem to produce some interesting paso finos!! And yes she finos quite well.

ENJOY!!! Hope to see you guys soon!!

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

Boo, is impressive!!!!!!! I can tell the resemble on his dam lines.....
I will like to see more pictures of him.......

[lisa l aka marci]

Gotta love a man who loves his horse, and a horse with 'issues' who really cares about his rider.... ;-)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GB-10-DCP_2741.jpg


Oh yeah....he looks SO concerned there ...... NOT!

Can't wait to see more pictures of the 2 of them! It is great having a horse that takes care of you......