Tack question for PF trainers.

[CarolU]

Okay...let me ask YOU, what is this thing? How does it work? When is it used, and what is used for?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PPRantares/GregBoo-6-70.jpg

[SandyMM]

You don't have our permission to post our picture...

[CarolU]

You know, it really is such a simple question. :roll:

[Heidi]

Flame suit on:

Can we NOT get into a p*ssing match over this?

FIRST, I cannot believe the actions I have seen/read of Mods/ForumLeaders being generally argumentative with the general membership.
*member doesn't like something you're doing, resolve it, don't post a pithy reply. :evil:

SECOND, I don't see any watermark, protection or copyright on that photo. It was posted publicly on a public forum. Get over it or make changes at your hosting site.

THIRD, can we not be satisfied that it was stated this type of tack would never be used unless it was not deemed necessary for the safety of rider and horse? This is clearly a transitionary piece...

FOURTH, the question IS simple. Sorry your photo is used as an example, but that IS different tack and someone (maybe several someones) are interested in an answer.
Want to help out?
Post a pic of it and explain why it is being used and how you plan to transition the horse into something else.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

:Jerry :compbash

[SandyMM]

The piece of equipment in question is the property of a professional trainer and is being used by the rider at this time under strict supervision for horse/rider safety. It would be inappropriate for me to describe its use as it is not mine and any description I gave could be incomplete, misinterpreted, or misused by someone not already experienced/ knowledgeable/supervised in its use.

[Abejita]

well Sandy since we know said trainer does come to the board, maybe you could give him a heads up so he could answer the question? To me to have the trainer using it explain it can help put out the fires burning in some people minds .An overactive immagination could probably make up horror stories (as opposed to trying to look at it the other way). And when it comes down to it 1) it can help educate
2) I know YOU do not give a darn what opinions anyone else has about what you do with your horses so why NOT explain what it is? ;-)

Edited :I just went and caught up on the other post and saw that Don was already there and his usual sweet self ( I am sorry I do not know Don never met him probably never will because I too am not involved enough in Pasos..dont get out ya know :roll: ...From what I see of his horses (Lori and you) he does a great job.Look how far Lori has come with Tequila. Its just that any of his posts I have ever read here.. well..The rest of us would get told to play nice or be called a troll.ALways comes across as snippy to me..but maybe thats because the only time he seems to post is in response to CarolU (were you two lovers at one time and it ended really bad???) SO It is obvious that this specialized bit is to remain a big secret and as Terri said that is kinda his perogative.He does get paid for his expertise so why give it away.I think Carol ,you are just gonna have to face that continuing this thread is just gonna start WWIII so if YOU continue on it will look like you are trying to cause trouble..April is here why dont we just shut the BB down for a week ,come back after Easter...Go RIDE If you still have snow or cold temps..GO GROOM ..make another horse with all the hair you get and train it how it suits you....

[SandyMM]

LOL - a voice of reason.... ;-)

[JennLM]

I'm still learning about Pasos and equipment etc etc. Not to fuel the fire in any way but I was curious about it too. Not that I would ever run out to go buy one and use it, eeek. I'm to the point where I let a trainer experienced with Pasos do the next step.

But I like looking at all the types of saddles people use and headgear. Wondering why that particular bit/saddle is used.

Simple learning and curiosity at something new.

Maybe Carol did not word it right, I don't know. But I am sure there are others curious as well with no ulterior motives whatsoever.

It's almost like describing a new gun. In the wrong hands, dangerous, in the right ones it's not. Depends on how it is used. But when someone says, "Hey, I just got the neatest gun" and posts a pic, people would start asking what it is, how does it handle etc etc.

Just trying to see it from another angle.

[Hacienda Del Sol]

Well, I'd like to know what that is exactly, because I cannot tell. I just can't see it. Somebody want to tell me what he's using?

[Pinto Paso]

No Jamie, noone wants to tell http://www.pintopaso.com/thinker2.gif I cant tell from the photo either

[Heidi]

I think this thread needs to DIE.

Actually, I think discussing this piece of tack may be dangerous.

To share the specialized knowledge of this piece of equipment, of which I am certain requires excessive feel/timing/sensitivity, things that can't be TOLD and must be FELT and LEARNED over time...to try to write about it to educate could possibly put dangerous and incomplete information (from the limits of the printed word to the limits of the person reading's understanding of the printed word) into someone's hands and possibly seriously injure either themselves or another horse with incomplete information when they try to implement it incorrectly.

Perhaps a photo and brief bit about how it works for THIS horse, who is clearly going through a transition designed for rider/horse safety, is all we need. I do not think this type of bridle is appropriate for 99.9% of the horses/riders out there and it requires a person who knows what they are doing with said bridle to achieve the goal and not harm the horse. Therefore, I do not think it prudent to publicly share this information.
Heidi

(copy/pasted w/ a few changes)

[SandyMM]

Yep... :dead horse

[Pinto Paso]

I think you're reading too much into it - I said the tack in question cant be seen in the photo.. and noone wants to describe it here.

I think it is pretty hard for anyone to make an accurate statement about a piece of tack that is not even completely visible..

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

This thread makes me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :puke

"NOW CLEAN IT UP" :realmad

[Hacienda Del Sol]

Sorry guys, I don't think that killing a thread will make this topic go away, and I think it's an important topic to pursue. The entire idea of these web site forums are to help educate everyone and all have a right to speak their minds, that's what rounds the educational experience.
That said, it almost looks like a Myler combination bit: http://www.mylerbitsusa.com/images/combination/Number-1.jpg

I could be wrong though, not really sure. Let me say this; it's not so important what you see in that pic, it's more important in what you don't see. I don't see that the horse is all cranked in and pulling, I don't see that the rider's reins are severely taught and I don't see that this horse looks, at least in this pic, particularly unhappy. I have to admit that this is only a single frame in the entire movement of this horse and that it's just plain bad to make general assumptions from that one moment. I think there are many tools you can use on horses and of course it's the way in which you use those tools that make them good or bad, that is useful or harmful.

[CarolU]

Jamie...I just wanted to know what it was. I saw something similar before and wasn't sure if it was that...a combination mechanical hack/bit, where the nose is pinched between the bosal and the curb.

But, I honestly have NO idea what this is. The one I saw didn't have 'stuff' along the bosal. I'm really curious to see how it works and what it does.

BTW - I wouldn't use that Myler combination bit either. Can't imagine why anyone would need something like that. It looks pretty nasty to me.

I agree that you use different tack for different reasons - head up, down, in, out, etc., as a horse progresses through their training. I also agree that tack is only as seveir as the hands that weild it...but that said, why have something harsh on a horse if you 'never' engage it and have only the softest touch with it?

I like the challenge of riding with a feather. I'll get there soon.

[Pasogirlz]

This thread makes me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :puke

"NOW CLEAN IT UP" :realmad

I agree, well said Felix.

Some of you think no one sees that their are obviously personal issues between certain board members. But I'd say it's pretty obvious to most of us. :roll:

Get over it. I'm really not in the mood today.

[Hacienda Del Sol]

The idea in the combination bit is not to "pinch" the nose between the bosal and bit, but rather to apply pressure in both areas. I have a combination bit and although I rarely use it, I've found it to be a good tool, provided that your hands are good. I think there really is no soft without hard. At some point in training you'll have to be hard, even if it's just at first. Even in beginning to teach pressure and release to the horse you will find you'll need to be "hard". You can apply the lightest pressure all you want to the halter, but if the horse does not respond by seeking relief, you'll need to apply more pressure, certainly more than a feather touch. I know you've seen that at clinics I've done there Carol, where I had to be hard with horses and then work backwards, towards lightness. With all tools, it's not a question of needing the tool, it's a utilizing a tool to a specific effect.

All problems between members aside, I still think this is a valuable topic, providing an opportunity for less experienced forum members to learn by seeing a variety of viewpoints.

[cowboy ed]

it looks like a jerra-jerra bar to me. to keep the horse from rearing. ;-)

[Terry Wallace]

I'd sure like to see it. I don't think the thread "needs to die"...

I have to ask this.....WHAT is the big deal about asking what kind of a bit, or saddle or any other type of gear you see on a posted horse?
Why is it assumed that there is an ulterior motive? If somebody asks me a tack quaestion on a horse I have posted...I just answer the question.
Being secretive and claiming it is "special" and inapropriate sure makes one wonder even more what it is.

Who sells these? Is there a website photo available? Why is it such a big secret?

I post lots of bits on here... Mylers, Kimberwickes, Paso spoons.....
WHAT is the big deal?

The most disturbing statements I heard surrounding that bit ...were "training is all domination" and "its a specialty piece"...
I would just like to see how "dominating" it is....is that so wrong?

Website? Anyone?

[CarolU]

Let me plug in something here.

Mr. Primrose is the Forum Leader of this forum. I thought his 'job' as the Forum Leader was to answer training questions.

[cowboy ed]

i already told ya'll what it was used for. :smile:

[CarolU]

So Ed, is it like a tie down? How does it work and how does it 'cure' rearing? I've never seen a jerra-jerra bar before...never even heard of one.

[cowboy ed]

no, it is not used with a tie down. it is a metal noseband in a combo bit. the noseband makes contact first, then the bit. kind of like a martha josey combo bit, except it has a metal noseband instead of rope.