"paso fino" bits in National Bridle Shop Catalogue

[Mellifluous]

'sup with them? They don't seem nearly as nice as our regular bits. They look like cheap walking horse bits with narrower mouthpieces to fit a paso?

[Brigitte]

ANy pics of them?

[pnalley]

They look like regular inexpensive curb bits that have has an S shank attached to make them look more Paso-y

[Abejita]

http://www.nationalbridle.com/prodDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=6606
http://www.nationalbridle.com/prodDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=6607
http://www.nationalbridle.com/prodDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=6608
http://www.nationalbridle.com/prodDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=6609

and I wonder how many of these $1500.00 saddle packages they have sold?????

"5 Piece Saddle Outfit, A great deal!! 16" Saddle made by Medellin from Columbia, South Amercia. 5piece includes saddle, felt lined girth, crupper, bridle with reins and breast strap. Rawhide pisador. An additional $12.00 for shipping and handling will be added per saddle.Color: Black. "
http://www.nationalbridle.com/prodDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=PASO

[Red Ryder]

Be what ever they are certainly they are $65 to $200 cheaper that Paso bits which I think are way to expensive.

Maybe they will bring the paso bits down some.

I plan to order 2 pair .

Certainly like any bit in the wrong hands are terrible. Can't be any worse than our spoon bit in the wrong hands

[Brigitte]

I wouldn't buy those...

[Cindy]

Those are some pretty serious bits. Better have good hands and a finished horse for those.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

I agreed, those bits scares me............

[Privatetreaty]

I like the Mylar bit
It has a break (like a snaffle), but the center ring doesn't pinch the tongue.

specifically A or B in the link below
I don't recommend a 7" (way too big)

http://www.kellystackshop.com/mylerwesternflatshank.html

.

[Abejita]

ok lets see if I am on the right track..they are 'pretty serious' because the mouthpiece is so thin/narrow guage compared to a Colombian Spoon bit right? So they have a lot more 'bite' ??So now if new paso owners buy them and use them wrong we will be hearing even more that our breed is nuts right? Or am I wrong here? if I am please correct me..

[Cindy]

The mouthpieces are pretty thin but also the shanks are not jointed at the mouthpiece and are immovable. Those things combined with shank length and design make them pretty hefty bits. They have a lot ofleverage on very onforgiving mouthpieces. As far as that other stuff you metioned, you would have to ask someone else. ;-) :roll:

[Pinto Paso]

I dont understand how people can not know the difference between bits - to see the thin mouthpiece on these bits in "the same shape" of a Paso bit does not make them an equal quality...

It is easy for a company to make a "knock off" of a bit but equaling the balance and mechanics of the bit does not transfer over just because they look the same..

There are some pretty good bitting clinics available that will explain the types of bits, their mechanics and the results that they can provide. They explain the conformation of the mouth - tongue, bar, palate.

While it is true that the hands are the the major contributing factor, a poorly made bit will make a difference if it is not balanced or the mechanics are not correct even in the softest hands.

[Pinto Paso]

Oh and by the way all of the shanks are 2" longer than allowable by PFHA

WHO needs to ride with an 8" shank?????

[Red Ryder]

If they are not jointed at the mouth piece and have short shanks ***nope don't want them

[CarolU]

I wouldn't buy them either, for all the reasons stated above....but I am sure many people will. Most people don't have access to PF tack dealers and it isn't sold in regular tack stores. Therin lies the problem. But all these bits are illegal in our show ring, so I doubt they'll take off as an approved piece of PF tack.

I like Myler's too...if shanked, I like the 5" shank.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

IMPORTANT MESSAGE!!!!!!!!!!

Friends keep this in mind: Ideally the horse should be ridden with shanks from 3" to 4 1/2 inches long. It is not recommended that horses be ridden with shanks longer than 6". In fact this is not allowed in the PFHA and CONFEPASO sanctioned shows.........



Saludos

[Abejita]

I never even looked at the descriptions to read about the shank length or anything else..I looked at the pics and said "No way"...LOL

[Cindy]

I did not look at the length either but I do not think that these bits have 8 inch shanks. The description says 8 inches "cheeks". Not sure how they are measuring this bit but the shanks only look to be about 4 to 5 inches if measured properly. The shank lenths is measured from the mouthpiece to the last immovable portion of the bit (not including rings). From the mouthpiece up is another measurement.

[Pinto Paso]

If the shank is not 8 - but the entire length of the side of the bit - from the curb upward would have to be 3 - 4 inches, not sure if they look that long.
The bit is still far to thin to be comfortable. I think the shanks are too long for this severe of a bit.

[Cindy]

I have already stated that I think the bits are pretty serious. No arguement about that. Those just don't look like 8 inch shanks to me. That's all. 8 inch shanks would be almost twice the width of the mouthpiece. Don't know how long they are but they don't look 8 inches in the photos.

[Candice Burger]

Interesting comments....

Wish I still had my original "paso" bits I used in Puerto Rico for all types of riding.

National Bridle appears to have spun off that design not the "paso" bits from Colombia.

Oh, can anyone tell me what a "paso" bit is? Seems me and my horses just don't get it yet.

Now that I've thought about it, it looks like the bits orginally used by many folks in PFOBA and APF way back when.

[Linda Y]

Candice, that is what I was going to say. It is almost just like a bit I used in the '60 and 70's. At that time, it was not a "Paso" bit, but a low port grazing bit. And I do have one of those hand made PR bits. Let me go see if I can find both of them and I will photo them.

[britzlove]

I haven't posted anything else on any of the other tack type posts here (I just returned from hiatus).

These bits look like misinterpreted knock offs to me as well. I also view them as dangerous for these horses (99% of paso finos I have met). Here's why:

In my experience...very short...but of all the thousands I have met the paso fino is very lightly responsive...as a majority. I have twice experienced exceptions..one because of training, one naturally occuring attitude of blase' demeaner.

These bits do not match that. There is not much allowing for responsiveness...no matter the hands...even in very good hands the fractional secnds of give will be hard to achieve.

Those bits...the cathedral ported bit posted in another thread...other fixed curbs of weight...even with thin mouth...they are best used for dead broke western pleasure QHs. See I said "best" used. Why? Because the purpose of having something pretty from the side to look at is achieved and once trained the poor WP horse only occasionally needs an occasional light bump to help lower head.

I like Abejita...do not like this marketed for newbies...but newbies will...and have bought these I bet since that is a main TWH supplier and it's known to be cheap. I know very little about the training of paso finos...but I know they should never share the same category with walkers. Standing firm on that.

Britz

[Candice Burger]

Gee, again, I wish me and my horses knew all about that when I used Tennessee Walking horse bits to train and show in. I used the 6 inch shank, loose shanges, medium to high ports.

I'm sure glad that I owned very talented horses that gaited anyway, behaved anyway, and took it all in stride (that's a joke).

Actually there are advantages to fixed shanks--depending on the application. Seen some horses very happy with it too.

:shock: :shock: HOLY SMOKES! That's it! That's the problem with all of the pasos now! All this wild-eyed, flaring nostrils, hyped-up, fruit cake for brains pasos are going crazy because of the loose shanks! They weren't like this before with high ports, fixed shanks!

I've should've known!

[Candice Burger]

Joking aside.

Bits are made to help horse and rider. I've owned a couple of horses that wouldn't settle down in the mouth without a port and cricket. Some like allot of metal, some like a little, some like crickets some like copper over sweet iron, some can't handle a thick bars on the bit, some like a mullen mouth, some like toggles others like rollers, Some do better with a high port, some with a low port. Some like spoons, some like hooded ports.

Then there's weight, shanks, and so it goes.

Every once in a while a rider will find a bit that "fits" most horses he rides. Maybe it's the way he handles the reins, maybe it's the type of horse he always picks out and the conformation between horses are about the same...

Maybe if all the shanks were fixed again, we'd quit seeing our loose shanked bits in the show ring uneven all the time....and maybe see a loose curb strap instead of the reins heavily engaged in the mouth in order for the horse to feel the signal....

[Linda Y]

OK, here are the photos. You can tell by the condition of the bits that they haven't been used in a VERY long time!
The first is the PR bit...I got this with our stallion Pepe who was imported from PR.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/yorkhrse/prbit.jpg

And this is the bit I used on my PR mare when I used to show in the 70's.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/yorkhrse/grazingbit.jpg

[CarolU]

Don't you think a big part of it is the different anatomy inside the horse's mouth? What one horse finds very comfortable will put another horse on its nose.

And as for this:


HOLY SMOKES! That's it! That's the problem with all of the pasos now! All this wild-eyed, flaring nostrils, hyped-up, fruit cake for brains pasos are going crazy because of the loose shanks! They weren't like this before with high ports, fixed shanks!

You KNOW that just NEVER happens. :bolts

[britzlove]

Sorry sticking by original conviction...unless we're talking about finished very light horses anyway...and truly is this what's being marketed to new people really? Is it?

And just like the naturally four beat lateral isochronic all the time every step horse...I have yet to meet these cake for brains paso's everyone's afraid of.

I really should have kept my mouth shut...how many times do I need to learn.

[Cindy]

Yep, those bits are very much like what we all used to ride our Pasos in until the Colombian bit came into fashion. I guess we had better hands then. :lol:

[Linda Y]

Yep, those bits are very much like what we all used to ride our Pasos in until the Colombian bit came into fashion. I guess we had better hands then. :lol:

Probably...
My mare didn't even have a bit in her mouth until she was 5. I challenged myself...and her...to work in lighter and lighter headgear until she would work with nothing at all. That bit was only used in shows, since they frown on no headgear. :lol: I could ride her, in a perfect gait, with a haystring around her neck, or a piece of string around her bottom jaw. Or like I said, nothing at all. She worked on voice.
I read a book about hackamore reinsmen that said a finished bridle horse could work with silk thread on the bit. I tried it, and sure enough, she would.
I wish I had half that ambition now as far as training goes... :-?

[britzlove]

These bits look like misinterpreted knock offs

The National Bridle people started having requests for people who switched from other gaited breeds they cater to, now riding pasos..they looked at paso bits and tried to come up with something cheaply made, cheaply produced, to be cheaply flipped in mass that looked similar...that's what those are.

No accounting for true horsemanship...certainly not of the quality of Ed Connell...

Whether they can be used in smart practioners hands I wasn't debating. I will say that those particular bits would be best in the mouths of WP bred, and trained QHs...they are kinda pretty, they look like something of use and in ignorant horsemans hands they wouldn't make much difference in that type horse.

All I'm saying is they aren't what I would think should be suggested to all paso fino riders of all training displines, qualities and experience IMO.

Britz

[britzlove]

And on my saved search this popped up this morning...just to share...really read it...all the notes from seller...."it work's great"...

http://cgi.ebay.com/WALKING-HORSE-GAITED-PASO-FINO-BIT-SALE-N-R_W0QQitemZ130096554620QQcategoryZ16253QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[CarolU]

I just saw that Britz...and those shanks (below the port) look way too long to me.

I'm so glad most of mine gait with feathers.

[PattiB]

They may not be illegal. They are measuring the cheek, which is from the top of the purchase to the bottom of the shank, we measure from the mouthpiece to the bottom of the shank. These look like some of the old peruvian bits a friend of mine has.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

For some odd reason I notice I had one hanging in my barn, must of come with a horse recently purchased. I was measuring it tonite, and yes if you measure the entire piece is 8", so by the way we doit, it should be 4 1/2- 5.

So Patti, I share the same comment with you.

[CarolU]

This one on e-bay doesn't state how long it is...but if you look at it...the shanks certainly look longer below the port, then the port looks wide. That is probably a 5" or larger port.

But, this one is not a solid shank/port like the other ones.

I'm starting to think like Candice, that maybe the solid shank/port was the original 'finished' Spanish bit, and that our horses might be better off if we did all training on the jaquima and only put them in a bit for 'the icing'.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

When the horse was domesticated and used to carry products on its back, only a piece of cord wrapped around the horses's neck was used to control the animal. Later, this same cord was wrapped a second time around the horse's nose and jaw in order to gain more control of the horse.
This double cord was the origin of the current halter and Jaquima.
Still later, this cord was wrapped a third time in the mouth to gain more control of the "hottest" horses.

Once this third wrap proved to provide more control of the horse, single bits made of hard materials, such as bone, were developed.

[reuben T]

I challenged myself...and her...to work in lighter and lighter headgear until she would work with nothing at all.



Now that's what I think of as proper training every time the discussion of bits comes up. When show's don't reward such training I think their standards are too low. A good reining horse will work off of seat, voice, and neck rein signals, with a loose rein all the time. In which case the bit is there just to hold up the ends of the reins, and a halter would do as good, or even nothing, maybe holding a U shaped stick in the middle for something to neckrein with. If I could be in charge of some show system, the judging would be done as usual, but then the bridaless performers would get added points, at least for the top 2-3 in a class. I know when someone trains with a bit they have some cues that the bit is used for, but I think if they can successfully transfer all those cues to some other means, it's a good step up in training.

[ASB.Immortality]

I know, I know... I am always late but don't have alot of time to read much here lately. Donning the flame suit for the snide remark...

Oh the horror of the shank!!!!

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/monica_norton/DSCN3986.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/monica_norton/DSCN3987.jpg

For better reference, normal sized coat hanger held up to it:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j199/monica_norton/DSCN3989.jpg

[PattiB]

:shock: :shock: :shock: Those are the longest shanks I have ever seen!

[Linda Y]

:shock: :shock:
Wow. Talk about a jaw cracker.

[ASB.Immortality]

It all depends on the hands, the horse, and other variables. Out of everything I have rode my horse with,he likes this bit the best.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/stormy_warning/Turbo2005.jpg