PPR'S are PINTO or is a Sabino Gene involve?

[The Professional]

Hello every one!

I would like to have some opinions about the white marks, caracteristics of most of the ppr's. As you know, mostly about 80% of the ppr's have white markings on the face, legs and even on the body. The thing is that for some people this an indicator of pinto marks. Also some puertoricans call those horses with white marks...pintos.

I know there are a lot of ppr pinto paso finos. But one thing is pinto and another thing is the sabino gene that is present in the blood stream of the ppr paso fino. It's an heritage from the African Berberisco and its passes on through the decendants of ppr paso finos from all times.

So, what I'm saying here is that there's a vast confusion among the people even puertoricans, that believe white marks is a pinto pattern and therefore they call these paso finos...PINTOS when in reality those marks are the sabino gene heritage from the Berberisco's ancestors.

I want to have some imput on the subject from you guys, what you think, what you know, it's true or false the white marks are pinto pattern or sabino gene? Thanks in advance for any info. I'll be searching some answers in other forums as well. Its important to me to have the impression of the paso fino people because I know as a fact that some people think ppr's with white marks are pinto and is not that Pinto is a bad thing to happen to the ppr's paso finos...it's just that this is not the reallity of the case.

Cordially,
-The Professional

[Pinto Paso]

Here are excerpts from one of the color articles I have had published in regards to colored Pasos - I have underlined and or colored some of the things that answer your questions if you prefer to not read the whole thing as posted.

Pinto – Alternating patches of white and any other equine coat colour appearing in random shapes and sizes.
Types of pinto patterns found in the Paso Horses.

Tobiano (toh-bee-ah- no)
This is the most common pinto pattern, being either colored patches on a white coat or white patches on standard coat coloors. Tobianos frequently have 4 white legs, a dark head, with or without typical markings (star,strip or blaze) and large patches with well defined edges, often rounded. Typical markings are patches in the flanks, the tail dock, on the chest and the neck with white crossing over the top line between the withers and croup.
Tobiano is a dominant gene, this means that it requires at least one tobiano gene from one parent to express itself - this would be the heterozygous form of tobiano. A heterozygous tobiano has a 50% chance of passing the tobiano pattern to any of it’s offspring. The homozygous form of tobiano (requiring one tobiano gene from EACH parent) means that the probability of a horse passing on the tobiano pattern to all of its offspring is nearly 100%. Testing a horse for the genetic marker associated with the tobiano locus is done at many parentage testing and research laboratories or university equine programs such as UC Davis or University of Kentucky. There is no lethal homozygous form of tobiano.
Breeding of two tobiano horses can produce tobiano(Tt) (heterozygous - one parent passed tobiano gene) 50% of the time, tobiano (TT) (homozygous - both parents passed tobiano gene) 25% of the time and SOLID (no tobiano pattern from either parent) 25% of the time.

Sabino (sah-bee-no)
The Sabino pinto pattern can appear on any base color, but is most commonly found on chestnuts, including dilutes (palomino) and greys.
Typically the Sabino pinto has extensive face and leg markings in a speckled or feathering pattern. Speckling appears on the undersides of the belly, neck and head.
Sabino markings can be expressed as minimal - "sabino characteristics" all the way to maximum white sabino. Full sabino pintos are very rare and so far there has been no documented maximum white sabino Paso Fino.
Some breeders as well as others that study equine genetics believe that all sabino patterns are controlled by one gene, expressed in degrees of white – this would lead to belief that a wide variety of markings are possible when mating horses with “chrome” or sabino type markings. For those that believe sabino to be ploygenic sabino is not merely a matter of the amount of white shown on a horse but in fact the amount of white is indicative of pattern type – this would explain why some breeds have only one type of sabino pattern (with the very rare exception) and why other breeds may display the full gamut of sabino patterns.
There does not seem to be a standard set for the description of sabino patterns, for the purpose of this article I will break the pattern into four basic subtypes.
Sabino characteristics – tall jagged stockings, chin spot larger blaze (no matter the size or number of these items on one horse)
Moderate sabino – White blotches of ticking (rount) under belly, under chin, bald face, hind stockings running up to top line (no matter the size or number of these items on one horse) sort of an expansion on characteristics type markings
Full Sabino Pinto – horse has body white the is unmistakeable a pinto pattern of more than 25% white (jagged white patches not ticking, large irregular pattern running up from entirely white belly, white legs, white under side of neck (sort of a reverse war shield), white sides)
Maximum White sabino – a white horse with dark eyes (occasionally 1 or 2 light blue eyes due to markings that are covered over by the sabino white) May be born with slight colouring in ears, mane and tail – this color generally fades within the first year.
There is much discussion and perhaps even controversy pertaining to whether or not one or all or any of the sabino genes are recessive or dominant. There is strong basis to argue both theories, at this time more research will have to be done by breeders and scientist to determine dominant, recessive or co dominant genetics.

One of the many possible genes that creates the Sabino pattern, the Sabino (SB1) gene, now can be detected by a DNA test. This verifies that there are more than one factor in play when it comes to the sabino pinto pattern and standard markings.

Sabino has been identified as a pinto pattern so in fact the PPR carries two spotting patterns, tobiano and sabino

[The Professional]

Thank you very much Pinto Paso for this well organized information. I appreciate it!

Although, the purpose of this topic is to let people know the difference between a pinto and a ppr with white markings. One thing is a pinto and another thing is a horse with white markings on the body due to a genetic heritage coming from a particular ancestor.

Pinto paterns, tobiano patterns and sabino are not the same thing. There are a lot of differences between all of them (patterns).

Check this pic for example of a ppr paso fino mare. She has white markings all over her body. Still, one can't say it's a pinto mare. Cuz' she's not, but for some people that probably don't know better...they call this mare a pinto.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/The_Professional_photos/413-20060819194259.jpg

The thing is that for not being documented on this issue, PPR paso finos that exhibit these white patterns are not allowed to compete in the APCCPFA better known as "los abiertos" (the open ones). They go by the standards of Confepaso and this entity consider white marks as a fault. At least that is what the judges say when a ppr want to compete and show those marks.

My intentions are to let people know that, if it's a matter of stoping a ppr paso fino to compete for the sabino pattern is a mistake, for they wrongly call them pintos.
This is one of the top ten ppr mares at the moment...her name is Azucar del Viento (Sugar of the Wind) and because of her markings she's not allowed to compete in "Los Abiertos".
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/The_Professional_photos/-1-20060901115911.jpg
They consider her a pinto. Not that she hasn't been allowed to compete, its only an example of the quality of the horses that are not allowed to compete and show similar markings.

[Pinto Paso]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/The_Professional_photos/413-20060819194259.jpg

This is a sabino pinto.
Sabino IS a pinto pattern

[Pinto Paso]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/The_Professional_photos/-1-20060901115911.jpg

I can not see why this mare can not compete according to Confepaso, I do not see the white above the knees or hocks or outside of the allowed facial markig zone... What does the other side look like?

[CarolU]

I thought that white couldn't touch a nostril.

I remember a beautiful black colt in the Fino auction at Nationals...you could hear everyone groan because he had a big white muzzle...only white on him. His price was pretty low....BUT he had the last laugh. I don't remember if he won, but he did place near the top of his 3-year-old schooling class the next year. He's a memorable horse. It was several years ago, but I think he was an Amadeus son...

Anybody else remember him?

[Pinto Paso]

Right - I forgot about the nostril thing.... This horse is however not a pinto, and is only disallowed because Confepaso is biased against all excessive white, not just pintos.

[The Professional]

Right - I forgot about the nostril thing.... This horse is however not a pinto, and is only disallowed because Confepaso is biased against all excessive white, not just pintos.


This is exactly my point.

The picture of the mare with the white patch on her belly, that resembles the great stallion Pisa Flores (Flower Stepper), is indeed a sabino pinto pattern. Still, like I said before in a different forum, colors and patterns are called differently in different countries. For instance, In PR a real pinto would look like this...
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/The_Professional_photos/2007-01-16_083047_Mia_11.jpg
That mare that I'm refering, some persons may call it pinto, just to highlight the white markings on her coat; as an overall. But, when the owner of a horse with that type of white marks, want to register the "pinto like" ppr paso fino horse in the ppr asociations, they would write down... (example) Chesnut mare, 4 white socks, extended blaze over nostril area, white patch on left side of abdomen area.

Some other colors, in different countries are calling it differently as I say but my concern is why they shouldn't be allowed to compete under confepaso rules. I understand that for some people the sabino gene or any white markings on a paso fino horse or any other breed of horses is a sign of genetic weakness. I don't agree with them, period.

The following is a picture of a modern Berberisco, an ancient breed that contributed to the new and modern breed of Pure Puertorican Paso Fino.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/The_Professional_photos/413-20070112122855.jpg

[Pinto Paso]

Some may not call it a pinto - but science says it is.. So unless someone can prove sabino is not a broken pinto pattern it remains one of the identified types of pinto.

[Carol Nelson]

Whew ...either one of those Pintos could eat cookies in MY barn, anyday!!! :shock:

[CarolU]

Steph...I've always thought that "a good horse is a good horse in any color." I have no color prejudices, although I do have my favorites (red duns, blacks).

I see many people breeding for a tighter gaited pinto to be more competitive in PFHA. I find myself wondering "Why?" with the stated prejudice to them in Confepaso, some of which carries over into the PFHA arena. I personally think that is wrong in our breed, because it does not affect the horse at all. I really like the FLASH of 4 white socks and a pretty blaze (like Sheri's filly).

What I don't like seeing are people breeding JUST of color, with no thought to conformation, quality of gait, breed characterisitics. But, I feel the same about those who breed JUST for speed...on either end...fino or largo.

[Pinto Paso]

Carol - I agree 110% - one should not breed for any ONE aspect but we see so much of it within our breed... breed for fino, breed for largo, breed for size, breed for color...

We have very different goals, guidelines, and ideas about the Pinto Paso. I wont go into in depth here - part of it is that I'm sure not everyone wants to be inundated with pinto programming :D , part of it is that our breeding program is our "trademark" so to speak and is how breeders disntinquish themselves from others.

As far as "adding" color to an already well bred, well gaited Paso Fino - well I think it is just icing on the cake to have a custom paint job on your favorite ride!! They key is to breed for Paso Fino first then incorporate or highlight the aspects of the breed that you like most. This should not be forsaken to breed for the aspect that you like foremost and hope that some of the other aspects of Paso Fino come through. I dont see how the color of a horse can matter one way or the other if a breeder maintains the integrity of the breed.

[Ferrum]

You can add the Overo and other broken paterns to the pinto group as well.

just a note to say that Tobiano and Sabino are not the only paterns, plus there is Sabino that is Roaned instead of Pinto.

[Pinto Paso]

Jo-Ann, so far I have not seen an overo paso fino. Do you have some photos?

[Ferrum]

Not yet, or I should say I have not looked. But plenty of Overo Pintos...lol

[Pinto Paso]

This could have HUGE implications for the Paso Fino breed - especially with an increased interest in pintos and now with talk of importation.. If both become more prevalent then it would be imiperative to know (by testing) if a colored Paso Fino carries the overo gene.. The reason of course is that the Overo gene (frame and splash) are linked to defects (lethal white in frame overos and deafness in some lines of splash). It would be a very good to identify the lines that carry the overo gene quickly. The labs that are doing studies would be interested in finding the gene in other breeds, and if the defects are found there as well. I am sure that if there are lots of overos then the breeding together has probably resulted in documented or known offspring with the defects.

Of course I am speaking of Pure Paso Fino - if Paints have been added then the overo would come from that. Still breeders should be aware that crossing overo to overo could result in problem. Also crossing overo into other color patterned horses should be well documented, that way if the two patterns blend coloring and mask the overo coloration it would still be known that the offspring could carry the overo gene (tovero, sabero etc)

Just some thoughts.
Stefanie

[Terry Wallace]

Where are the overo Paso Finos? Overo is a gene mutation that occurred in stock horses, paints & QH....

If there was truely overo coloration in Paso Finos....we would have lethal white foals..... I have never heard of a lethal white foal in a Paso Fino..are you saying there are/were some Jo Ann? Or are you maybe thinking some of the sabino patterns "look" overo? Because some of them do LOOK overo..but they are not overo...no overo gene.

[Pinto Paso]

Terry what about the overo gene & lethal white in miniature?

Following is a quote from 2004 or '05 from The Veterinary Genetics Laboratory (VGL) (self-supporting unit of the School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis.)

"In Minis the OO combination may cause early embryonic, not neonatal loss. This situation could also occur in Paints, although at present no evidence is available to support this explanation. Testing at VGL has confirmed a case of lethal white overo live birth in Miniature Horses."

To find overo in other breeds would be able to shed even more light on the overo gene.

I am hesitant to believe that overo is in the Paso Fino but as a breeder involved in colored Paso Finos I would want to keep up to date on all developments.

[Terry Wallace]

Terry what about the overo gene & lethal white in miniature?

I would then have to assume that there has been another mutation in miniature......OR....since miniatures were once bred from larger stock...that it came from there and has just surfaced...or...it is an isolated incidence... Or...as usual...."Humans don't have all the answers yet!"

What are your thoughts on it?

[Pinto Paso]

I agree it is another mutation - and is probably related to intensive (maybe extensive) linebreeding or is it perhaps something to do with the genotype of selecting a phenotype (in other words; we see a pattern or characteristic that we like, seek out more of the same and breed them together) after who knows how many generations a mutation "pops up".

That's why I am saying that if there are indeed overos (as per a test) in this breed we need to identify it and determine any (if any) defects may be linked to the mutation.

It would be very important to work with a lab(s) to determine this early on.

[Ferrum]

I must explain myself...

I was thinking about the fact that most Colombians and some Puerto Ricans like saying that "Pinto" is another breed, and an American breed at that.

Now there are breeds based on Color in the USA and one is the "Pinto".
I don't know much about that breed except I think they made that breed so that people could "find" horses of flashy color to breed to.

I think that "Palomino" is an American breed to ( Am I right?)

Anyhow there is also this concept in Dogs, with the Golden Retriever breed.
They are judged in the show ring to alot by color, ( Redder dogs being undesirable).

BUT, that does not mean that any Golden colored dog that retrieves is a "Golden Retriever. "

So There is now this trend to claim that Sabinos are not Pintos in order to justify keeping them in the breed.

I don't see why color should be judged in the show ring, for many reasons, but one biggie is it called the "Paso Fino" not the "Bay Paso Fino breed" ,
The Golden Paso Fino Breed" or anything else like that based on color or markings.

So, I just wish that people would stop seeing pinto pasos as an American breed called the pinto and see "Pinto" for what it is. A group of paterns that some horses display , or "Markings".

To stop the mentality that Pintos are and "American " invention, I have posted pintos from South America, Africa, India, and Europe. of VARIOUS recognized breeds.

For Art school I have to read ....Alot .... Anyway, in one essay we had to read, it claims that Europeans feeling Greco-Roman Art was superior to all, so what about Egyptian Art and Monuments ( like Pyramids of Giza).
Well the Greco Roman European Supremacists first said Egypt was not a part of Africa, but of the mediteranian and just in case that failed to sway public opinion, they claimed Egyptians were not black, but european.

If you guys really want me to post pics of pintos in Puerto Rico or the PPR breed I can do so. I will tell you though, that
1. There are plenty
2. Most don't have full pedigrees listed. ( as if they there ancestors were not part of a serious breeding program, or as if someone kept kicking them out of the registry.)

The whole Overo thing was just to state that Overos are another "Pinto patern", besides the Tobiano and Sabinos.

Yo know like a joke or logic game,
All Overos, Sabinos and Tobianos are pintos, but not all pintos are pasos.

Hope I explained myself,
Jo-Ann

[Pasogirlz]

Posting pic for cwatson:


This baby is owned by Barb Nichols at Frosty Acres, born last week

Sire: White oaks bayamo

Dam Lyra de Vivo-Yo

Mom and Dad can be seen on her website

www.purepuertorican.com



Her name is Splash Dancer!



http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/pasogirlz/Sabino.jpg

[Pinto Paso]

Yes as I posted the description of pinto in my thread with my article.
You are correct it is a broken pattern and within that description lies the genetic types of pinto... Yes there is a pinto horse association it is a color registry (meaning the horse must display the pinto phenotype to qualify for registration)... There is a palomino registry - palomino is the result of the cr gene expressed over a chestnut in order to qualify for registration in the palomino association it must have that phenotype - it is also a color association.

PAINT is an association based on color AND pedigree... they also have a "limited" (no regular classes I believe) division for the resulting solid colored offspring of registered horses (called breeding stock) - this is done because it is NOT only a color registry so keeping the pedigree documentation and value of the purebred offspring is important.

*color associations mean that they only have to show the color requirements of that registry - in MOST cases pedigree, type of horse etc is of no consequence.

It may be a "trend" to misidentify sabino or overo or what ever but it is a trend that could have serious consequences if mutations do show up...

I come from a Paint Horse background, so when the mention of Overo is brought up it is of importance to me as a breeder - not knowing the genetics of a horse that may be used for breeding can be the equivalent of playing Russian roulette with the offspring it the genetics can be linked to mutations or defects..

And Jo-Ann of course we always welcome your photos - registered stock or not... bring em on!!! Why not start a thread called Pintos in PR or something...

Stef

[Pinto Paso]

Splash Dancer!

A really nice example of a sabino pinto AND in something other than chestnut... very nice.

[Terry Wallace]

Jo Ann... In the USA, a PAINT horse...a horse registered with the APHA is essentially a Quarter Horse with excessive white markings. Many Paints and QH share a LOT of ancestry. Both have evolved into their own registries.... but for the moment, lets back up and explore what "caused" this.

In the early days and up until recent history (less than five years ago) the AQHA would deny registration papers to offspring of registered AQHA parents if that offspring had (for example) "high whites" or stockings that exceeded the middle of a knee or hock joint. If that foal had high whites, it was considered to be a "pinto" and "undesirable" to the AQHA registry.
This was based on ignorance of equine color gentics...PERIOD!

I used to breed both AQHA and APHA horses. Back in the day...if you had a foal born with excessive white markings and two registered AQHA parents...and could not get it registered with AQHA...you could submit it for registry with the APHA. This is why so many AQHA & APHA horses share a LOT of ancestry. That foal was usually called a "crop out"...

Now...fast forward to modern day genetics..... We now know there is no such thing as a "crop out". We know that pinto genes such as sabino gene can hide for generations...and one day turn up in an offspring of two parents who appear totally solid (I had a horse like this!) The sabino gene hides, and does not get expressed...it can "stay hidden" for generations...and one day...."OOPS!!!! Where did that pinto/sabino foal come from???" People used to doubt that the solid parents ...that the solid stallion was the real parent...now, enter DNA testing...the DNA proves the offspring comes from the parents by a whopping 98 or 99% accuracy rate... and the sabino gene is proven to hide....so now we know where that color came from...it was there all along...it just did not get expressed.

NOW...the AQHA has loosened its strict color guidlines and is accepting those high whites....because it has been ignorance of color genetics...that made some people think the colored offspring just "could not be"....out of solid parents.

Some people still say that a pinto Paso Fino is not a "pure" Paso Fino... This is BUNK.... DNA does not lie ..... this is another form of color genetic ignorance IMO.... I have photos of PPR Paso Finos displaying sabino type pattern from the 1800's.... Pisaflores is a fine example of sabino pattern.
There are MANY, Many sabino characteristic PPR Paso Finos.... from way back when to modern day.... there are plenty of tobianos too.
I have owned a few....all were DNA typed.

I'm with you Jo Ann... I'm sick of pintos being treated like "second class" horses..... There will be more & more of them now, as many people love pintos, and more are being bred all the time. In the USA... people prefer color...be it pinto, palomino, buckskin, dun...or other.....

It has not been until recently that the PINTO has gotten its due! Thanks to DNA testing and color genetic info becoming more & more available...

[Terry Wallace]

Another example of color genetic ignorance involved double dilute horses and the AQHA.

Years ago...the AQHA would not register a double dilute horse. Any pink skinned, blue eyed horse was flat denied regsitration papers. They were regarded as a "weakness" in the breed, undesireable...."culls".

In fact...one of the most highly respected Quarter Horse breeders of all time... Mr. Hank Wiescamp (deceased) of Alamosa, Colorado had to keep his cremello mares HIDDEN from the AQHA..he had to actually falsify their papers and say that they were dark eyed palominos.

My Wiescamp's cremello mares...his "palomino factories" were kept in secret.....all because of color genetic ignorance of the day....

We now know that any time you breed a single dilute horse to another single dilute horse..you have a 25% chance that both those horses will throw their dilution gene and produce a double dilute horse.

In no way was it fair IMO...to deny registration to the foal of say a palomino and a buckskin, just because the pair threw a double dilute offspring..that whole concept to me is ridiculous.....

Many FINE, well bred AQHA horses were denied their due...because they were cremellos or perlinos.
Luckily...now days....the AQHA has "come to their senses" and allows the registration of double dilute horses. Owners of such animals can GUARANTEE that the offspring WILL BE diluted.... just as owners of offspring of truly homozygous tobianos can guarantee that you will get a pinto offspring...no matter if bred to a solid.....

FINALLY..science won out over prejudice and ignorance! Lets hope it happens for the Paso Fino! :D :D :D Lets hope it happens SOON!!!

[Ferrum]

Thank you Stef and Terry for explaining these things to me. ( color & am Pinto.Paint breed stuff)

I also agree with both of you on how pintos have been treated or "Mistreated", or "Defamed if you will.

The Foal by Bayamo is is Darling.

Did anyone notice that Guamani had a low rear sock, low, but Jagged edged, with a peak that creaped up his cannon like a sabino " hint" if you will :D ?

Jo-Ann

[Ferrum]

Hi Terry,
I was wondering about the palominos, as if they had been a breed, they would never breed true, starting with palomino stock.
from the foundation palomino stock they would always get
25% cremello
50% palomino, and
25% chestnut


I was baffled why they have a "Palomino breed in my horse encyclopedia, after learning the genetics thanks to the forums and helpful / knowledgable people on them.

Jo-Ann

[Terry Wallace]

Hehehehehe...Jo_Ann..take a close look at Dulce Sueno!!!
He screams sabino!

[Terry Wallace]

Palomino is ONLY a color breed..... not a "bloodline" breed !

Just as the "pinto" breed is a color designation...and almost any breed can get "pinto" papers just by how it "looks"...must have pinto coloration.

(Not to be confused with the PAINT..APHA which is a "bloodline breed")

[Linda Y]

My first Paso, Cuca Volar http://www.pasoregistry.com/db/Profile.asp?ID=71347 was sired by Volare (solid black) and out of Sensacion LaCE (solid bay). But Cuca had a very large blaze. I always thought she was a throwback to her grandsire, Guamani.
Cuca had 3 foals by 3 different stallions. All 3 had stars and some rabicano roaning. And they all developed 'bird spots', as has her great granddaughter. Aren't genetics wonderful?

[Pinto Paso]

I think recognition within Paso Fino associations will be many many more years... There is a very real cultural difference in combination with the lack of knowledge at this point - some breeders in PR are trying to make a stand.

If you look at the history of the original registries bringing colored horses back into the fold, it has always been after the "colored registries" based on the breeds have been formed and become strong in their own right.
Paints from QH, Spotted Saddle horse from TWH, now Spotted Mountain horse and Pinto Paso Horse associations are gaining strength.

DNA & sciences are assisting breeders in so many ways, the associations are depending on it more and more.. hopefully many more strides will be made.

[The Professional]

Hello every one.

I've been reading all of your posts here and also some at other forums that I have posted the same topic and it's amazing how all coincide in the same.... Why pintos or sabinos or any colored pattern horse can't be allowed to compete (in Confepaso).

There's a lot of PPR'S that display white markings in all types and forms. They are beloved for us and not appreciated for others. Well, it's like a common proverb that says, "Para el gusto los colores" The colors for the likings" . That's fine with me, if you don't like color patterns and prefer solid colors, is your prerrogative and no body have to mess with that. BUT, what I don't agree is with some of the people that doesen't like white markings and saying that white is a genetic weakness a genes fault.

The officials at confepaso for decades have been thinking that pinto or sabino pattern is a "fault of genetic material". A stallion that is for reproductive purposes mostly doesn't show any mark that resembles a sabino or pinto because its a weak link in the breeding chain. So they say :-?

The point is that we have come to a new era of knowledge to know better than that. PPR that exhibit sabino patterns, toviano, overo, splash, a pure pinto paso fino!....they should be allowed to compete in any confepaso show because the judges are going to judge paso fino, not pinto or any color pattern, it's not color what they are going to evaluate, is paso, gait, fino!
I rest my case!

Cordially,
-The Professional

[Pinto Paso]

I agree with you on the discrimination but not on splash, overo or tovino. If you have pics and genetic confirmation fo it existing I would love to hear about it.

[papi_pasofino]

HELLO ALL YOU PINTO FANS;

IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I WRITE, BUT HERE I AM AGAIN. AND THIS TIME WITH MY NEW SIGNATURE, MY PINTO PASOFINO, SOON TO BE SEEN AT THE COMPETITIONS. AS SOON AS I LEARN HOW TO POST PICTURES IN THIS FORUM YOU WILL SEE IT.

AND BY THE WAY A PINTO IS A PINTO, IF THE WHITE MARKING ARE THERE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT ANYBODY WANTS TO THINK. WE CAN TALK ALL DAY ABOUT THE GENES OR WHAT EVER, BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT IF THE ANIMAL DOES NOT HAVE ANY WHITE MARKINGS ON HIS BODY, SIMPLY PUT HE IS NOT A PINTO (EVEN HE HAS ALL THE GENES)

PAPI_PASOFINO[/img]

[mtnxtreme]

These genetics still confuse me, I had a pinto mare, bred to pretty much solid studs, give me 2 pintos ( with lots of white ), and a solid black, her daughter ( pinto ), gave me 2 bays with 1 white sock, and then my Alicante daughter ( solid black, no white at all ) bred to my bay Kofresi grandson ( with 1 white sock) gave me 2 bays, 1 white sock and lightning bolt looking white stripe from nose to forehead, I got more white from a solid black ( of whom I was hoping would give me another black) What gives?

[The Professional]

I'll say that nature would take it's course...