Vaquero Horsemanship

[CarolU]

I found a little video of heaven this morning. You watch this and think about Reining and where it all started. I am SOOO glad that this kind of horsemanship has not disapeared. I think this is the heritage of our beautiful Spanish Horses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWoYHGkjgNA

[Centauress]

I've always loved watching that and it's very hard to find footage - thank you for posting! I watched this one as well which is a little shorter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzD-vg7Dpxk

I love the Andalusian so much. If I ever bought a trotting horse again that would be it! 8-)

[Terry Wallace]

Hey CarolU...if you go to Ebay and peruse "Andalusian" there are some Doma Vaquero videos....

I was there looking for an Andalusian type bridle...the kind with the large flat, decorated noseband....preferably black....can your sister get them?
Got any leads for me?

[CarolU]

Oh yes...there is a tack shop in Ronda that sells all the Spanish tack. It is where I got my moscara.

I can ask her to stop there and take pictures and get prices for you.

[TrueStepPaso]

Love it.

[JennLM]

It was pretty neat. I started to click all the other links on the right of it. Lost of neat stuff there.

Just a bit of warning though if you click those links, one has them actually spear a steer :shock:

[Terry Wallace]

CarolU...check out these bridles!!

http://www.usfriesianreferral.com/tack.html

Purty stuff! I like the very first one shown and the 3 tasel traditonla Hungarian bridle....FANCEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

[Candice Burger]

8-)

Thanks Terry, that will keep me happy and quiet for a while!

[Mellifluous]

Dang!

It is a shame that none of it comes in paso size! :cry:

[Terry Wallace]

What you talkin' bout Mel? Most of it is fully adjustable stuff....!
I bet it would fit my horses just fine.... :D

[CarolU]

That cutout Spanish Bridle is very typical of what they ride in.

[CarolU]

Gosh Terry, some of these look FUN!!!

http://www.usfriesianreferral.com/imagesforwebpage/hungwb_thumb.gif

[Terry Wallace]

I love THAT one Carol... I also love the noseband to be up high like that.
No "bit" interference...

I very much like the "cut out" bridle too...

[CarolU]

I'm not sure if I like it quite that high. Don't you think it makes the horse's nose look long???

Maybe somewhere in between. I agree that I HATE when the bosal or caveson rides between the bit purchase and the horse, or just above...and pushes the bit out. I wish we didn't have to use them to be perfectly honest. I like a simple headstall, maybe just the browband and cheek pice.

[SandyMM]

An interesting Doma Vaquera site... many, many pages and pictures available if you Google 'Doma Vaquera'...
http://www.domavaquera.info/
http://www.johnsaintryan.com/domavaquero.htm

[Pinto Paso]

http://www.argentinapolo.com/images/picArgentinaPoloHalterRawhide2.jpg
http://www.argentinapolo.com/images/picArgentinaPoloHalterRawhide.jpg

[CarolU]

Very interesting Stef. Where are those from? Kind of interesting hand craftsmanship of braided headstalls. I've never seen anything quite like them. Do they consider them bosals or cavesons?

[Pinto Paso]

Argentina Rawhide Halter (plain) with lead - Bosal y cabestro

mostly used with polo ponies...
http://www.argentinapolo.com/images/picAPargentineHalter.JPG

[CarolU]

Wow..looks like macrame. I'd like to touch it...find out if it's stiff or soft.

[Barbwire]

I'd like to touch it...find out if it's stiff or soft.

*Bites tongue clean off, falls on the floor, writhing around*

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[CarolU]

I'd like to touch it...find out if it's stiff or soft.

*Bites tongue clean off, falls on the floor, writhing around*

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Barb...the BOSAL, lady THE BOSAL! :shock:

(but I do have to admit that I put my FOOT in it THAT time!)

[Pinto Paso]

I'd like to touch it...find out if it's stiff or soft.http://www.pintopaso.com/what.gif

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

touch it...find out if it's stiff or soft.


:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[CarolU]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:http://www.jammerbabe.com/flotilla/images/smiles/brainfart.gif

[Pinto Paso]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Well I should hope so :lmao

[CarolU]

UNCLE!!!! (I'm running out of cute ways to try to get OUT of this one) http://www.jammerbabe.com/flotilla/images/smiles/boogydance.gif

[Pinto Paso]

If you were a super hero you could http://www.pintopaso.com/superpowers.gif

[CarolU]

Good idea...I'm working on it. http://www.jammerbabe.com/flotilla/images/smiles/bartman.gif

Now...can we ALL take a DEEP breath and forget I typed that?? http://www.jammerbabe.com/flotilla/images/smiles/please.gif

[Privatetreaty]

Okay, moving right along.



I would like to know your opinion, please.


What did you guys think about this horse's maneuvers, done at a walk?
I mean, do you think this could work for a Paso?

Some folks don't like Dressage for Pasos.
But, what if it's done at a walk?


I value your opinion on this issue. :idea:
Thank you. :D


.

[CarolU]

Did you not see this thread? There is a PRPF trained in classical dressage, and he carries himself beautifully.

http://www.americanpasofinos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12633&start=0

I have a girlfriend here who does the Classical dressage (not the Kur kind with the overflexed necks) with her Pasos and raves about it. Things you will do in true classical dressage is take away the gait and get a long trot.

I imagine it is a matter of what you consider 'good' for your horse. Many people like to keep the horse in frame and in gait. Others may feel that the more you do is better. Lengthening is another form of suppling. The horse in this thread is collected at the trot. I think you'd have to decide if you wanted to collect at the trot, corto/fino, or try both.

I do think most of the moves you learn in dressage...half-pass, side-pass, long walk, shoulder ins, etc., are all GREAT for your horse, any horse. I personally want to become a student of the Mexican/U.S. Vaquero horsemanship, which was the father to modern day Reining. You train in a western bosal, which is what I grew up doing. So in a way, it is relearning and growing more.

I would love to dance with the charro pole as they do, but don't think my shoulders will cooperate.

[Pinto Paso]

I think that anything people can get their Pasos to do is the right thing...

I work my young horses on the line in 1/2 pass, full pass, Spanish walk, shoulder in, turn arounds.. Then I transition these moves to under saddle exercises.

All of these things improve the horses abilities and the communication between owner and horse...

[Centauress]

I agree that the paso, being closely related to the andalusian is very well adept at performing these excersises.

I trained my gelding to do these moves and I found whenever he was getting a little "trotty" I would do a sidepass at the corto and he'd go right back into gait! He'd round right up and lighten too. I can't wait to start teaching my new guy. 8-)

[Terry Wallace]

Hey CarolU...on the rope halter you said looks like macrame'...its not..it is even WAY EASIER than macrame'...to get that type of braid.....all you do is get two peices of rope.....find the center (maybe put a metal ring in the center) Find the center of both ropes....cross them like an X or +, put your ring onto 1 rope each so it sits across the center of the +.
Now, all you do is take the two ends from the same rope and tie a half knot (half hitch), pick up the other two ends from the other rope and make a half knot....proceed up the entire length and it will turn out just like that "chain" looking rope halter....and will have a ring on one end...

its easy and very, very fast to do.... lots of people make soft cotton reins that way...with a simpe "two braid, or two chain"

[CarolU]

Okay...well, i have a lot of 1/4" rope here....I'll try it. BUT, if I end up tied in a knot with it, you'll need to send me more instructions! ;-) I do tie rope halters, so am not totally knot-challenged.

[paintedhorizon]

CAROLU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :oops: :lol: :lol:

I'd like to touch it...find out if it's stiff or soft.

SORRY, I wasn't here yesterday! :lol:

[Pinto Paso]

if I end up tied in a knot with it, you'll need to send me more instructions!

Yeah, like we wouldnt take full advantage of that and just leave you tied there :roll: http://www.pintopaso.com/waveHappy.gif

[CarolU]

if I end up tied in a knot with it, you'll need to send me more instructions!

Yeah, like we wouldnt take full advantage of that and just leave you tied there :roll: http://www.pintopaso.com/waveHappy.gif

(I'm going to ignore you Michelle! :razz: )

But this is just MEAN!!!! :hitting

[Pinto Paso]

:new confused

[paintedhorizon]

You can't ignore ME! :twisted:
(I'm going to ignore you Michelle! :razz: )

[Privatetreaty]

Did you not see this thread? There is a PRPF trained in classical dressage, and he carries himself beautifully.

http://www.americanpasofinos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12633&start=0

I have a girlfriend here who does the Classical dressage (not the Kur kind with the overflexed necks) with her Pasos and raves about it. Things you will do in true classical dressage is take away the gait and get a long trot.

I imagine it is a matter of what you consider 'good' for your horse. Many people like to keep the horse in frame and in gait. Others may feel that the more you do is better. Lengthening is another form of supplying. The horse in this thread is collected at the trot. I think you'd have to decide if you wanted to collect at the trot, corto/fino, or try both.

I do think most of the moves you learn in dressage...half-pass, side-pass, long walk, shoulder ins, etc., are all GREAT for your horse, any horse. I personally want to become a student of the Mexican/U.S. Vaquero horsemanship, which was the father to modern day Reining. You train in a western bosal, which is what I grew up doing. So in a way, it is relearning and growing more.

I would love to dance with the charro pole as they do, but don't think my shoulders will cooperate.


I noticed that thread Carol, thanks. I going post something in there.

Gait has a lot to do with: #1 the horse's natural gait ability and/or tendency and #2 the training.
I've seen horses that have done nothing but a flat trot, come out gaiting after proper "Paso" training.



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I think that anything people can get their Pasos to do is the right thing...

I work my young horses on the line in 1/2 pass, full pass, Spanish walk, shoulder in, turn arounds.. Then I transition these moves to under saddle exercises.

All of these things improve the horses abilities and the communication between owner and horse...


I agree with you Pinto babe. These Pasos are extremely intelligent. These breed can do it all.

Like people, some horses are smarter than others. I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Boredom is a big problem that a lot of trainers don't address. Especially smart horses, get bored going round and round in a ring sometimes. Nothing like a half pass or shoulders in to break up the boredom.



************************************************** **************



I agree that the paso, being closely related to the andalusian is very well adept at performing these exercises.

I trained my gelding to do these moves and I found whenever he was getting a little "trotty" I would do a sidepass at the corto and he'd go right back into gait! He'd round right up and lighten too. I can't wait to start teaching my new guy. 8-)

Way to go Kim !!!
Gee, I've been waiting all these years for someone to say, they've used Dressage to correct a gaiting issue.

When properly executed, the side pass and the half pass works wonders.

My point is this-
To me, Doma Vaquero is modified Dressage.
For someone who has learn the real thing, it appears terribly unpolished.

There are different schools of Dressage: French, Spanish, German.
Learning directly from one of the sources, such as the Imperial Spanish Riding School of Vienna, for example, is one thing.
However, when we learn from someone, who learned from someone, who learned from someone else, we get a modified version.

People have a tendency to put their own "style" into somethings.


************************************************** **************



Question:

Our bella forma is somewhat related to Dressage ground training.

A lot of people don't show in bella forma anymore. I never liked the idea
of working young horses hard and showing them in bella forma.

But, I wonder how many of you use bella forma as part of your ground training?

Thank you.


.

[Terry Wallace]

But, I wonder how many of you use bella forma as part of your ground training

(Raises hand) I Do, I Do !! and also dressage type longe work.

Every horse I start gets driven in long lines way before I ever get on it. Its where "Steering & Brakes" get instilled and practiced along with voice commands.

After maybe three days of round pen work...its right to the training pen for longe work...NO free longing...I'm talking longe WORK on about a 10 foot line. small circles, horse learns to cross over behind....this is the "back muscle building" segment...this takes a good 3-4 weeks...sometime in there a bit of driving begins, then right to driving...including driving behind and around things like my rider mower (running) a bicycle being ridden by husband, right by sprinklers which Husband turns on right when I drive the horse up near them, and anything else I can think of to do that I will encounter on trails....
plastic bags rolling by, cars coming up the driveway....etc.

[CarolU]

Yes Helen, I use driving as a major part of my ground training...not just driving the horse forward in lines, but driving the front quarters and hind quarters around, driving the horse backwards, and driving the horse sideways. When I start a young horse, I spend a lot of time driving in lines. I try to teach everything I can from the ground first, and then transition it to the saddle. Even when they're going, I always do LOTS of ground work...I like to 'dance' with all my horses.

I come in the house with sore feet a lot more often then a sore butt. LOL

Jamie Drizin (Hacienda del Sol) helped me with Rosie before the High Desert last year. She prefers trotting to gaiting. :( Dressage is mostly what he uses to lighten the front end and get the horse engaging the back. A lot of moving the shoulders over. He's a pro gait trainer, and he uses it regularly.

Something that is kind of fun..if your horse is bored with arena work, you can teach them patterns and counting. Say if you are working on walk to canter transitions, you can walk 3 steps and canter a lap, drop to a walk for 3 steps, canter a lap, drop to walk....and you know what? About the fourth time the horse counts those 3 steps and offers to canter.

I think it's important to engage their mind. They're very intelligent if you give them a chance.

[Terry Wallace]

What is...a "pro gait trainer"? Some kind of harness?

[TrueStepPaso]

http://www.messengerfreak.com/emoticons/smilies/Whistle.gif

[CarolU]

No...it is confusing to me to say "professional PF trainer" when I train PFs professionally, but do not really train for Paso gait. I train trail and family horses. So, if I say 'gait trainer' that would be a PF trainer who specializes in gait. Jamie does more then just Paso Finos, so I'd consider him a 'gait trainer'...at least he is one I go to for help with gait.

[Pinto Paso]

I use BF training but not line driving... in BF lines I expect my horse to have correct headset, gait and manners. I dont line drive (traditional), I have found it can make them heavy on the forehand.. Young horses 8 - 18 months are worked in one line - horses older than that are worked in two lines with two handlers until they are set then two lines with one handler if two handlers are not available.

I find BF training prepares young horses for under saddle training, the are further ahead than those that are just handled in a standard manner (halter, feet, daily grooming etc).

We do not train to excess, dont work a young horse to exhaustion or daily. A lot of our BF taining includes standing correctly for line up or to have people handle them all over. It is just a good way to interact with a young horse.