Disaster visit with the vet

[nmcreel]

I just had to share this nightmare story with you guys. Yesterday I had a new vet, who takes care of the owner of the boarding barn's broodmare band, examine Hijo (PasoxQH) for a drippy nostril that he has had for a few weeks. A different vet checked him 10 days ago and suspected a tooth problem and gave him an antibiotic injection. After about seven days the snot came back and I had this new guy check him after ultrasounding some mares.

I had to wait a while so rode him around in the rope halter backback with just the halter rope on one side. My turn finally came and they called me to the barn. I rode right up and hopped off to start the exam. All was going fine until the vet started to check respiration and gut sounds. Suddenly he jumped back and shouted in a paniced voice that Hijo (my gelding) was a stallion! I was in shock, but right up up in the correct spot was a very suspicious round area. When the vet went to examine the "suspicious" character Hijo struck with his hind and had to be twitched.

Then the vet decides that the sinus problem could be strangles and wham I am kicked off the property. Fortunately the friend who helped train him had no horses at his place and I was able to take him there for solitary. Now the scary thing is that Hijo has been with numerous mares over the last year--including his mother. I hate to thing about all these .25% Paso babies running around. Right now we are waiting on a bacterial culture, and blood work for a T count. I won't know the results till later this week....

Today when I went to feed the "suspicious" round thing was still there...

Nancy Creel and Hijo

[Pasogirlz]

Oh my.... to both. :shock:

Fingers crossed for good news on the test results.

[Terry Wallace]

Is that "round thing" right up next to his body? Is it tight against his body? Like traped in the inguinial ring...if so...not likely he could get a mare in foal...the semen will be "too hot" they will be body temperature...which pretty much kills them.

If he had strangles for two week prior to this....with no futher break-outs
(erruptions under his jaw, on his face, or anywhere else) not too likely to be stangles either!

We will anxiously await the "report".... I would try not to worry too much! ;-)

[nmcreel]

Terry, It is right next to his body and is not hanging down away from the body heat. I'm ignorant enough that I don't even know what a stud looks like except on my old Breyer horses.... Thanks for the note and information.

Nancy

[Carol Nelson]

Oh boy, so Mr. Hijo could have lot's of little Hijo's out there, huh? Bet the vet who did the castration will be getting a call from you.
Don't beat yourself up about the strangles...strangles is EVERYWHERE. It had to come from somewhere, so it probably came in with a strange horse that had no symptoms. They just happened to find it in yours.
I'd be anxious to hear the results of BOTH tests... ;-)

(Hope both are negative...)

P.S. I agree with Terry, I don't think it's strangles...don't you just love these over-reactive vets!

[britzlove]

I will also keep fingers crossed for you Nancy.

Booting you from the barn if you have been there awhile is bad though...strangles spreads fast. Sorry that happened.

I lost the best show pony ever to a strangles misdiagnosis so I'm trying to send you positive vibes....let's hope it's just a swollen lypmph node or something.

Britz

[CarolU]

Just a question...hasn't he been with the same herd for some time now??? Have there been any new horses added to the herd?? Has he been in a trailer or some place that may hold contamination?

Horses don't just 'get' strangles...they are exposed to it first.

What color is the snot? He may just have a runny nose from dust and allergies.

[Mellifluous]

that is crazy! i am interested in updates!

[nmcreel]

Carol, Only one nostril has the snot which is a true little kid green/yellow. After the first set of antibiotic it came back whitish at first and changed to classic snot color. The vet suspects a cheek tooth.

Strangles is in our area right now and a friends horse had it last month at another barn. The owner had a filly last year in her barn with the strangles that it picked up at a QH show so it's around. Appetite, and energy are fine.

About 3 weeks ago he had a mild cough which I thought was due to mold in the hay.

Nancy

[CarolU]

Yellow is indicative of an infection, but he'd still have to be exposed to Strangles to catch it. I would look at any new horses or horses that have been transported to/from shows or clinics recently.

I'll be interested in the results of both tests too. My experience has been that stallions ACT like stallions when mares are in heat.

Two mysteries at once.... :confused :confused

Let us know what happens.

[Terry Wallace]

One nostril (only) with green/yellow snot does indeed sound like a cheek tooth gone wrong.... but did the "Shock & Awe" vet put a speculum in his mouth for a LOOK?

Why would he think it was strangles with only one nostril exuding anything?

HMMMmm..the plot thickens! We will be anxiously awaiting results!

[nmcreel]

No, He did not put anything in his mouth. Once he saw the "suspicious round thing" he became extremely nervous and treated Hijo much differently than he had when he thought he was a gelding.

Nancy

[appyday]

Hmmmmmmm could the Ball thing be bastard strangles breaking out somewhere else..or a lymph node..can you post pics of it???


Ps Plus I know Barbara would like to see it too..try to get a butt shot while you are at it..

[Edurne]

get the horse dentist out

[Boyd R]

Is it not proper protocol to quarantine and not let any horse off the property.

[LeAnn]

What about a hernia? If he kicked when touched maybe it is hurting.

[CarolU]

Is it not proper protocol to quarantine and not let any horse off the property.

You are SOOO right Boyd. He should have been isolated and the whole ranch put in quarentine. Good catch!

I'm going to vote for hernia too. I think that if he had a retained testicle that you would KNOW he was a stallion...I am certain HE would know it and would have been visibly breeding every mare that came in season.

[Monty]

Boyd is right - no one can "move" on or off a property with strangles for 3 weeks - or until blood test clears them !
We use to isolate any "new" horses for 21 days - Had a new boarder pull a fast one - managed to haul her horses out of a place and in the barn our daughter was running - she was upset because we isolated her animals in a different pen - well - a few days before the isolation was up they came down with strangles - because of that - she was the only one who could doctor them and wasn't allowed IN the barn or to touch any other horse - when they were cleared - she was booted for lieing to us !
Strangles can be carried from barn to barn by people who may come in contact with a horse the has it - like farriers - If they don't know the horse has it- plus ,some horses can be healthy but be a carrier .
Your case sounds more like a bad tooth - or even a sinus infection -

[nmcreel]

I think I was mostly kicked off for the "stallion" thing. It is tough though as the owner booted me and boarding facilities are closing left/right and center in this area. Fortunately I had a place to go where he is completely isolated.

I'm pretty mad about how I was treated.....

Nancy

[Laura S]

I would call the state vet and find out what is protocol and complain about how it was handled.

[Privatetreaty]

This is such a crazy story.
I wonder how long this guy has been practicing on horses.

Did the Vet check his temperature?

I think strangles has about a 2 week incubation period, before you see the chin ball.

It's my understanding that your horse can get it with infected training equipment. Even barn hands can spread it with their boots, going from stall to stall.


Don't geldings with a "proud cut" have a small "pouch like" thing?

.

[Brigitte]

I think the vet was a bit weird.. Freaking out when he found out he's a stallion...(if he is) What's up with that?

[nmcreel]

I've tried to learn about what proud cut is, but have found little information. Could someone describe it for me? Tommorrow morning I'll shoot some photos of the mysterious round object for everyone. I'll try to remember to get a nice backside shot for Barb's files as well.

I really hope that the mares he's been with aren't in the motherly way. I'm going to have some very angry friends if they are.

BTW--Thanks for chatting with me on this. My hubbies out of town and forgot to turn his cell phone back on so I can't reach him. I've never known anyone so phone illiterate!

You can see my naughty little "stallion" on this video clip. Most of you have seen this--it's the one with the dog doing agility. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAvmKvvRtRs

Nancy

[Laura S]

That is a cool video. Your "stallion" (ha,ha,ha) looks like a nice boy! I hope he feels better soon, whatever he has!

[Privatetreaty]

Do they let you take a horse into a dog agility class? :confused


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[Barbwire]

OK, so call me a moron here, but I would think that the stable owner would require all horses boarded there be vaccinated for strangles. That is how it is around here.

[TrueStepPaso]

I was thinking tooth problem and hernia, also. A gelding at my barn has those exact symptoms from a cracked tooth they eventually extracted....

[Monty]

Even with the vaccine - they can get a slight case of strangles - one barn had an evening with an equine vet - so we all got to pick his brain and vaccs were talked about at length .
And yes it can be 2 weeks or a few days more - that was why new horses should be ilsolated for 3 weeks - to make sure they don't have it .

[Terry Wallace]

Proud cut..is when the testicle is taken off but the epididymis (sp) is left on the cord. The Epididymis is the small, round structure of tissue located in the cord probably 3 inches or so from the testicle.

BTW...a very recent study suggests that leaving the epididymis does not really affect the horse as once was thought. Does NOT cause studly actions or behavior as I think they discovered that it manufactures no..or very minute amounts of testosterone.
If you are seeing a fairly round & solid structure there...it won't be an epididymis, as that structure really doesn't exceed maybe 3/4 inch in diameter.

More likely it is a testicle laying between leg and belly partially trapped by the Inguinial canal...or maybe not trapped and just laying there. he would not be fertile...if it is a testicle and is touching right against his belly...as it will be body temperature....

I would think its not too likely to be a hernia...what would be "herniated" in that area? If the inguinial canal was large enough to let a piece of intestine drop through, you would surely have had a colic episode from that long before now.... Umbilical hernias often get a loop of intesting dropping through...but the location is far from the umbilicus....

I think a DIFFERENT vet is in order!
As far as quarantine for strangles...check with your state as they don't do that here...and strangels is a very common malady most horses will get sometime in their lifetime..some will express it with fever and erruptions, and others will not, and just be carriers for a while. Strangels vaccine does not prevent strangles...it just lessens the severity of the outbreak on the horse.

[Privatetreaty]

Strangles produces a fever. That's why I asked you if the Vet took the horse's temperature.


According to what I read from you, Nancy, this horse is turned-out with mares on a regular basis. If you truly have a horse with an undropped testicle, he would be acting like a stallion. You and everyone on that place would know it.

This is why I suggested perhaps he's a "proud cut". Low or non existent sperm count (due to body heat) is one thing and testosterone, is a total different subject. An undropped testicle will produce sufficient testosterone to keep the pituitary gland active.

In other words, if he had any kind of real testicle in there, he'd be humping a wood pile, if he knew there was a snake in it (can I say that?).


.

[Mellifluous]

I can testify to that. Spirit had both his testicles just inside his abdomen where his scrotum should have been. He sure thought he was a stallion. Calling, pawing, mounting anything that would stand still.

It was obvious to even my non horsey family members.

[jodiTowne]

How's things going??

[Privatetreaty]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. :confused


http://www.jammerbabe.com/flotilla/images/smiles/allalone.gif


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[Nancy Creel]

Well, my calm little gelding is not a stallion although the mysterious round object is still there and the vet is curious about it....

Also he does not have strangles, but the bacteria that was causing the one sided discharge is still of unknown origin. The vet did a bunch of radiographs and wants to have another vet endoscope him tommorrow to check his gutteral pouches.

I'll take him back to the boarding place tonight.

It's an expensive jounrney so far.

Nancy Creel

[CarolU]

Well THAT is good news. I hope they learn not to be over-reactive in the future. I'd call and give that vet an earful too...especially about all the fear he put into everyone!

[jodiTowne]

Thanks for the update. Good news but a stressful experience for sure. Are you getting a different vet??

[Nancy Creel]

Hijo had surgery last week and the "suspicious round object" turned out to be a "hydroseal". When he was gelded they cut him like a cow and left the scrotal sack. The sack healed up and scar tissue formed allowing the sack to fill with peritoneal? fluid. The surgeon did a wonderful job and Hijo is now back at the ranch in a 12x24 foot recovery area for two weeks. Once the incision heals up I'm cleared to ride! The trails up on his mountain are finally dry and by the time he is back in shape we'll be able to explore in any direction.

Pre-surgery I kept Hijo in my yard, in town, for a week to monitor him in case he had a hernia. He made friends with the 100s of walkers, bikers, and joggers that go by on the trail behind our house. I was hoping he'd hide and avoid them, but he hung his head over the chain link and watched each one go by. I miss him, but had pushed the neighbors far enough.

Nancy

[Cindy]

So no hernia? Sounds good. Glad he is doing well.

[Monty]

Curious :confused - (guess we are REALLY spoiled with our clinic :oops: ) -
Didn't your vet take a swab and do a culture ? Our's do ! To make sure - and IF a horse has strangles, they give the meds and test again when signs are gone - otherwise you can't move the animals !
I am sure MOST people know this - but I will remind you ;-) When out with your horse - do NOT let them touch noses with strange horses! Simple prevention tactic! :angel

[Nancy Creel]

The original panicky "he's a stallion" vet did do a swab which after 5 days came back negative. In Montana you are not required to keep a horse with strangles on the property. That's probably why quite a few farms around here have it right now.

http://www.bozemanagility.com/HIJO-snafflelesson.jpg
This photo is from just before the "strangle/stallion" scare.

Nancy

[Terry Wallace]

Gee Nancy, I hope they find out what the discharge is from. I am assuiming they took x-rays of his head..and no impacted tooth is at fault?

I hope it is not a gutteral pouch problem. Is there any swelling on either side of his neck right where his jaw plates meet his neck? Right in the troatlatch? Just wondering why they suspect gutteral pouch.

[Jane Hurl]

Random thought:

In every graduating class at the veterinarian college, somebody graduates at the bottom of the class.

[Nancy Creel]

His baby caps were trapping food in his gumline and likely caused the infection. The vets pulled 3 caps and the infection has not returned....

Nancy

[Monty]

Great news - hopefully that will be the end of it :D

[jodiTowne]

Glad it worked out OK....in the end.