Plea to PFHA

[paso chikkaaaa.]

To Whom It May Concern,

I would like to submit the following rule changes for the board members of the PFHA association to consider. I am not sure what the proper process is since I have been only involved with the association for just over a year, but wanted to bring my thoughts to your attention. I believe by making these changes it will help enhance the breed and move it forward. Thank you for considering the request below.

1. National Executive Officers of PFHA are UNABLE to show while they are in office. This can take effect the end of the current officers term so that the new blood or old blood can decide whether they truely want to run for office with this restriction. This will eliminate a lot of controversy and will be best for PFHA as a whole. Plus eliminate the good old boys club comments that are made at shows and negative attention to officers.

2. Amateur Owner Classes: Sub-junior and Junior riders are unable to compete in this division. There is a division for the kids, a division for the juniors, a division for the professionals and a division for the non-professionals. Sub-junior and Juniors need to choose what division for the whole entire show year they want to compete in. By making this change, it makes it so they can't do both divisions (Sub-junior and Amateur Owner / Junior and Amateur Owner - it is one or the other). I do have a sub-junior rider and feel it is only fair to make the kids choose what division they will compete in that particular year.

3. Divide Amateur Owners into two groups - Level 1 and Level 2 (like what happens at nationals for the Sub-Juniors): If after showing in Amateur Owner Level 1 for five years they then move to Level 2 Amateur Owners. Thereby letting beginners compete against beginners (Level 1) and encouraging the beginner to show. Also letting the amateur owners that aren't beginners to compete against people with the equal show experience (Level 2). This division of Level 1 and Level 2 would occur only at large national shows such as Nationals, Spectrum, etc. thereby not adding classes. In addition, it can be kept track of by point standing on the computer (via PFHA website and divide as such there) very easily thereby not requiring another class at a show.

Thank you for listening and if you are a PFHA member, and agree, please email PFHA board members and ask for these changes to be made. Thank you for your time and your help.

Sincerely,

Matthew Marks

[appyday]

OK I just skipped through your post let me see...


At the Regional and National level app shows..

1. Not sure on club officials..will check

2. you have your youth...3 divisions..like under 7, 7-14, and 14-17 this is NOT exact as I do not pay attention to them..I don't show there..

Youth of any age can not show Amateur..

3 Amateur is in several goups..Nov am (non pro) (under 50 nat points I burnt that up in one season) Non pro, 35 over non pro and Non pro masters (over 50 I think)

I can show..Non pro and 35 over non pro..I do not qualify for Nov Non pro or Non pro masters..

[SandyMM]

National Executive Officers of PFHA are UNABLE to show while they are in office.

That would eliminate anyone who earns a living showing Pasos from earning a living while being a National officer...

[CarolU]

I hate throwing water on you, but...

1) Rule change proposals must be submitted to the Rules committee by the deadline before the Membership Committee. This is every two years and the last one closed in July. So, you can't submit your proposals until 2007. There are rules (of course! LOL) for how to do it, and you have to site the rule number you're changing and write out the changed language.

2) The rule change about officers not showing horses will never fly. We're a small association and they are volunteer positions. People need a reason to dedicate so much time to an organization. They are pretty tough jobs.

3) The Juniors and Sub-Juniors not competing in the A/O classes was submitted and voted down in the last membership meeting.

4) Your idea about 2 groups of A/O is good. I like better seperating into A/O and A/O/A/T (amature owned amature trained). That would allow more owners to show....You will get a lot of resistence though. The show scehedule is already long and no one wants to give up anything (I know, I've tried to add a class before).

I hate to discourage you...perhaps you'd like to PM me about Sport Horse. It's for families.

[Dianne]

:roll: I would just GIVE UP like we all have. Glad I havnt been able to participate in nationals this past several years! And I sure dont want to renew my membership.

[ErinC]

And I sure dont want to renew my membership.::::



I had to add a ditto to that,
I do not have any activity up here in the north cornor of the world, only 2 little shows that would be a large wast of my time. unless I dropped a ton of money into it.
No name No place!
sad but true, I gave up even thinking about it and did not renew, I just enjoy my awesome Pasos in the woods![[/quote]

[paso chikkaaaa.]

I did email the board of directors and my local region director last night. This morning I did have an email from Robin, the PFHA President, stating that the deadline has passed for rule changes, but she did point me in the right direction to navigate the red tape. Thank you Robin for your help, I have already gone on line and found the section in the rule book.

In regards to the amateur owner division. The division would not be based on age but start the first year a person shows in amateur owner. Then you have five years in that division before moving to Level 2. It is not age of the rider based, but number of years showing in that division.

In regards to not renewing membership. Yes, that did cross my mind, but that does not help the breed. My family loves the Paso Fino and has already invested lots of time and money to just throw the hands in the air. We have ten Paso Finos and that was just bought in the last year.

I am not a politician, nor do I want to be a politician; however, I have no problems telling the powers that be, what I would like see happen. My philosophy is the worse they can say is no and if you didn't let them know they don't know what changes members want to see made.

In regards to shows, the focus will be on what is best for our daughter. Our main goal now is having her show locally, not travel and have FUN. Let the youngsters in Florida grow and be trained so that they can come up north. So the focus has changed from wanting to show just to show to if my daughter wants to ride and have fun, then that is what we are going to do.

After seeing nationals, my eyes were opened on many fronts. Especially with the quality of horses, remember I am new and this was my first nationals. However, I did see some of the negative aspects that people bring up on these boards.

If members do not voice their opinion to the directors and board members they then can not make any changes.

Thank you for reading and if you want to get involved, email your directors and look in the rule change section in the PFHA rule handbook and begin the red tape process.

Sincerely,

Matthew Marks

[Bonnie M]

I totally agree with you about the juniors not being allowed in the A/O classes. The juniors already have their own classes so they should not be allowed in the A/O, that should be reserved for adults only.

Also, with the talk of doing a Nationals for juniors, if that happened, then juniors should not be allowed at the regular Nationals.

I would also like to see a rule for A/O classes that says something like your horse cannot be ridden by a professional trainer within 30 days of a show. I saw at a show last year a horse be ridden in the open class by a trainer, then it was lunged for about 15 minutes, then the A/O rider rode it in his class.

[pasopam]

I do not agree that youth riders should not show in amatuer owner classes. My 13 year old daughter rides in both youth and amatuer owner classes. My daughter can handle her horse well, and frequently places first or second in the class, beating competition consisting mainly of adults
That being said, I think parents should know the limitations of their child, and not put them into a situation they can not handle. I dont think children should be restricted from competing in an ametuer owner class, but parents need to use common sense, too. Ironically, at the nationals, my daughter placed sixth in amatuer owner pleasure geldings, but did not make the cut in the subjunior performance or subjunior pleasure on the same horse. Our horse is with a trainer, but the trainer does not just ride the horse. He is teaching my daughter how to ride, and train her horse as well. I could confidently go to a show without a trainer, and know the horse would do well. I think the trick here is knowing how to ride, control your horse, and be confident, whether or not the horse is worked by a trainer or not. As my daughter gets older, and gains both knowledge and experience, a trainer would no longer be necessary. There are plenty of horses that the trainer rides before a class, and the owner gets on and has a good class. These are push button horses, that anyone probably could ride and get a similar result. We DO NOT have a push button horse. My daughter knows how to get the best performance out of her horse. We own three paso finos, and my daughter has permission to ride three horses belonging to other people. These are very different horses, all needing something different from their rider, she has shown all 6 of these horses at one time or another, and has done well with all of them. Ultimately, the point I am trying to make is whether the rider is a child or an adult, knowing your horse and your own limitations is very important.
Another thing in these debates, that I think every one loses sight of, is that the classes which the professionals and trainers ride in are OPEN classes. Open means any one can ride in them, amatuer, professional, child, adult. If in the future, a rule is ever made forbidding children from riding in amatuer owners classes, guess where the kids who show amatuer owner now are going to go.

[PasoPerson]

We frequently see the same sort of "let's keep 'em where they belong" threads in another area ...

A/O are allowed to ride in Open
Youth are allowed to ride in A/O

And the big deal is ??? I am not sure WHAT is the big deal. I feel if I wish to put myself in a class full of trainers, let me go. And if a youth rider wants to put themselves in a class of adults, ditto.

The only down side I can see is that it gives an unfair advantage to the person trying to put points on a horse for high point - who is "brave enough" to ride in the next class "up" from where they usually ride - as trainers can ride only in one class but A/O can ride in A/O & Open. And youth can ride in A/O and Youth.

Could be opening a can of worms here. JMHO

[appyday]

As an AM owner with the Apps..I show OPEN all the time..against trainers and my 3 yr old was still TOP 10 Nationally pointed in 3 yr old snaffle bit pleasure..If I had a particularly political show I would put a catch rider on him. But usually I showed and placed a lot of times against big trainers.


As for the trainer not being on a non pro for 30 days before a show that crap is not gunna happen...

[Ginger]

Why's this a sticky in the O/T board? Shouldn't it be in the comp/Paso board?

[Pasolady]

Amateur Owner is just that, Amateur Owner to Ride/Show, has nothing to do with professionally trained or not. If you want Amateur Owned and Trained than most breeds have a 90day - 6 months not professionally trained. Personally i believe that AOT should be just that no professional training within 120 days...levels the playning field a great deal.

Good luck with any proposed rule changes. Now is the time to get your campaign in gear for the next rule change in 2 years. I personally do not like having children in amateur classes, and would very much like to see that particular rule happen. I also would like to see the Championships become just that Mares Stallions and Gelding combined, especially at the Nationals. We are the only breed I know of that does not have a combined Grand Championship. I would like to see that in all divisions, except of course Juvenile Classes where stallions aren't allowed anyway. Which BTW is an excellent reason to keep juvenlies out of Amateur classes, because Stallions are shown in these divisions, many shows only have combined Championships.

[RitmicoRox5]

I have often wondered why they did do a comdined championship class consisted of mares, stallions, and geldings. However, the fact that some one is riding a stallion is not a reason to keep youth oout of amatuer owner classes. Only subjunior youth are prohibited from showing a stallion, junior youth can, and many do show stallions. As stated in my previous post, knowing what you, or your child can handle, and not entering a class beyond your abilities is paramount. If the rider can not handle a stallion, and keep him focused on the riding, and not the mare next to him, that that rider should not be showing a stallion irregardless of their age. My daughter with 4 years of show experience, 2 riding western with her paint horse, and 2 riding pasos, can handle any class she'd be entered in. If I had any doubts, she absolutely would not be entered in that class. She started out only showing in youth classes, then showed amatuer owner at a few small shows, again learning, and gaining experience along the way, and then, and only then began showing in amatuer owner classes at larger shows. She was high point amatuer owner at two of the shows we were at this year, and got first in amateur owner pleasure at the Illinois State fair in a class of 23. Again, not all children could handle entering a large class, whether it is a youth class or an amatuer owner class. However, a 50 year old deciding to show for the first time, does not have the show experience that many of these youth riders have, so the suggestion in a previous post that amatuer owner classes be graduated based on the length of time someone has been showing has merit.
OK. I'll hop off my soapbox now.
This was actually Pam posting on Katie's account

I personally don't like classes that combine stallions, mares and geldings. There have been incidents where some riders have not been able to control the stallions when there are mares in heat. As for the amateur owner classes, I see no problem with kids entering them. Whoever rides the best wins and some adults just can't stand being beaten by either a kid or a lady/girl either. Poor sportsmanship! My daughter was showing subjunior and has won open A/O pleasure championships and placed well in the professional championships on occasion, too. Many times she doesn't even make the cut - it all depends on her horse and her ride that day. Many of the kids take lots of lessons and work hard to show. Now if you limit them to only the subjunior or junior classes they are not eligible to show in anywhere near the number of classes that adults may enter.

Remember, kids show in pleasure, performance, fino, equitation and horsemanship. A/O have each sex (mare, stallion, gelding) and each age division (3 yr, 4 yr and grown horse) of each sex, trail, versatility, country pleasure, and then they have all the classes that are open for them against the professionals. Look at any show's class list and you will see the amateur owners have the most available classes. And as for that "no professional training" within a certain time limit suggestion - how do you ever plan to enforce that one? Many of the amateur owners don't even have the horses boarded in the same state they reside. We all know some people will "bend" the rules because they do it now. How many of the amateur owners should really be listed as professionals? How many show up, jump on thier fully trained and warmed up horse and then ride into the ring, collect their ribbons, ride out and jump off to have the trainer take it back to the stall. There's no sense making a rule against it because it will never be able to be enforced, just like the tails or all the horses born on paper just after January 1st.

My daughter no longer is a subjunior and will be able to show stallions next year and won't stick out in the ring because she has a helmet rather than a hat. Let's just be glad the kids are riding horses and staying out of trouble. We all want more entries at shows, and letting them enter as many classes as possible helps all the regions make their shows a financial success. And don't forget, it's not just the kids riding horses that are too much for them, it happens to a lot of riders.

Marelyn (posting on Alex's account)

[Boyd R]

I feel the definition of Amatuer owner schould be just that. The owner of that horse (the one on the registration papers) and be an amatuer.

And for the rest that would like a class that they can win in. Lets make a class for only Sue and a Lisa class and a Sheri class and a Tim class and so on that way everyone can have the best oppurtunity to win.

Do we not have enough of almost identical classes, Lets leave room for real competion that will grow the breed. Barrell racing, Hunter Jumper, reighning and so on. and when we get big enough then we can seperate them out so they can have individual Su and Sheri classes.

[Pasolady]

I showedASB for 30 years, showed 5 gaited and 3 gaited with Stallions, Mares and Geldings. Never had a problem with my stallion or anyone else's. In the Pleasure division there was no place for any stallions, but I would have loved to have shown my black Beauty in a Pleasure Class, he had better manners than most of those I did show against overthe years.

also chidlren under the age of 14 were not alllowed in the Open Classes and 18 yrs old and under were not allowed into the Amateur division. That was the way it was with Arabs, ASB, NSH, Morgans etc. I beleivethat also partains to AQHA shows.

[Ginger]

When I was showing walking/racking, women nor children were allowed to show stallions. It was strange when I started showing Pasos- it was allowed.

Everyone seems to think this one tiny four-year-old on this one horse (a buckskin) was just SOOOOO CUUUUTE when she'd not do the proper gaits, run over someone else, cut across the board the wrong way, or lose control of her horse while whining. I was seventeen. I didn't think it was cute, whether I like demon munchkins or not. A show is for showing, not babysitting.

If you're going to have kids that small in an arena, either put a rope on them or make their own class in a smaller arena so that they can keep grips on their horses better.

[paso chikkaaaa.]

I am seeing a lot of posts regarding rule change #2 and #3. I do like the point idea (for dividing, instead of years shown in that division) and this is a view I have not heard before.

However, I am not hearing much feedback regarding executive board members showing? Is this because everyone is in agreement? Just curious on the feed back on this rule change.

Matthew Marks

[Abejita]

I hope they never have a Sheri class..would be real embarrasing to not win it...plus it might make me have to show and am to much a scardy cat to :oops: do that!!

[pasopleasure]

Why not just do=like the th dog show FieldS world.....excuse the female in heat. Less of them and more of everyone else on a given day,

[Pasolady]

I have no objections to Any member showing at any show, so long as they themselves are not exhibiting at that particular event. Why would anyone chose to serve this organization if they were not allowed to also show?

But juveniles in AO classes, I say they have their own division and until they turn 18 they should stay in those divisions. It is important that they have can/should take the opportunity to learn and grow with those of their own ages and skills. just my not so HO. A juvenile is still a youth. The arena can be a zoo with just AO's in the class, we don't need the youngsters in there also. When the juvenile/youth classes are in the arena I see much more attention placed in the arena for safety, as well it should be happening.

[pasopleasure]

Agree Officers should NOT be allowed to show while in office....BUT This means members defer other costs.....Can you buck up $100 a YEAR? So we can actually PAY officials? We as members must decide....cheap membership equates to volunteer officers over which we have no control....More expensive membership equals MAYBE actual representation as then it becomes a real PAID job.
Talk it out, yah al.

[CarolU]

I don't have any trouble with the officers showing. If you made that rule then people who have the most to contribute to the organization would not run for office. How can a proffesional trainer afford to quit showing for the year's they are in office??? They can't. What about a judge? Should they quit judging for the years they are in office? What about regional officers, should they be allowed to show? It could really get out of hand.

Right now we are a very small organiztion with very few people who volunteer and do a LOT of work. Why make it worse?

JMHO?

[srjames9]

How about cutting the ED salary in half and using that as the budget for the officers. He is making roughly 95k/year plus bonus. Do we really need a 95k ED in Florida or can we make due with one for say 50k?

Cheers,
James

[El Indio Elegante]

I totally agree with you about the juniors not being allowed in the A/O classes. The juniors already have their own classes so they should not be allowed in the A/O, that should be reserved for adults only.

Also, with the talk of doing a Nationals for juniors, if that happened, then juniors should not be allowed at the regular Nationals.

I would also like to see a rule for A/O classes that says something like your horse cannot be ridden by a professional trainer within 30 days of a show. I saw at a show last year a horse be ridden in the open class by a trainer, then it was lunged for about 15 minutes, then the A/O rider rode it in his class. i disagree to a great extent on this especially with juniors not being aloud at regular nationals. there are juniors out there that train there own horses and then when they go up against some of the best trained horses in the youth classes they don't have a chance. Some youth are also trainers. This doesn't go to a/o but to the proffesional classes it could pull clients horses out of the ring. I don't agree with the 30 day thing that's wut country pleasure is. most amateur owners don't work with horses on a day to day bases. Some don't know how to work them correctly. There trainers are like there instructors teaching them how to ride there horse. the horses would be a disgrace to the breed if that happened.(not trying to say this is everyone but i know a girl who works her own horses and they used to be performance and now they are barely gaiting)

[motorgypsy]

Why don't I want to ride with the juniors? Because they will probably beat me since they are better riders, more experienced, ride more, frequently have trainer fathers or farm trainers and outclass me most of the time. It should be the other way around - if the seniors want to they can go UP to the junior classes!!! Not the other way around. Now all should be allowed in the championship classes because they are supposed to be the best of the best. If they are going to allowed mixed gender classes they need to keep them small enough so if there is a problem with a mare, a stallion or gelding, that others won't get hurt in the melee.

I think the whole kids should stay with kids is nonsense or are you just mad cause the kids are the ones who take your 1st place ribbon? Our very own Alex Klepak is one of those people so is Suezette and Michelle. They just go into A/O because junior classes aren't very competitive for them anymore. and they just happen to own a horse just like any one else that pays to be a member of this Association.

and Officials should be able to ride if they wish. I know there was some drama over the past president of PFHA because she would win everything and they believed they had a little "Mafia" going on between the judges and officials. THINK AGAIN. You are a sored loser and the official just happens to be riding a better horse and probably he/she is a better rider than you. get over it :roll: