bits and bridals

[reuben T]

I would like to discuss the purpose and use, pros and cons, of various bridals. I've studied the work of a few good trainers, some work with bits and go to great lengths in intricate communication with the bit. (Richard Shrake, Jack Brainard,) Others have worked horses up to where they need no head gear at all by transitioning all cues over to other means, and see that as ideal. The philosophy of the best trainers I know is to work where you keep the horse very light on the reins in a mild bit for it's life. But there's one "good" reining trainer (consistant winner who trains trainers) who takes for granted a horse will get heavier over time and need a more severe bit. makes me wonder if that trainer is doing something wrong if his horses get heavier (less responsive) over time. Those who do reining with no bridal certainly have a horse light on the reins, (because there arn't any)
What got me started thinking about it again is a website promoting a bitless bridal, condeming all use of bits as cruel. I ignored all the hype that would discust a good bit using trainer and read it through, along with most of the articles, looked for something useful. Looks like more a problem caused by poor trainers and bad hands than bits. If they manage to get the bits out of the mouths of a few horses that are being abused by bad hands, that is a good. But I look at that bridal and try to think, how would it work better than a bitted bridal? and how would a bit work better? It looks like it may work very well and would like to try it, (but don't want to waste any more $$, so I'll probably make one)

http://www.bitlessbridle.com/

I realize that the more educated a person gets the more opinionated they tend to get, (I've gotten that way) but still, as i see something that crosses my preconcieved opnions, I'll try to ignore the ill feelings and dig through the info with an open mind, consider it logically, compare it with what I think I allready know, just in case there's something there I can learn.

[Fuego]

Rueben, much depends on the philosophy and abilities of the 'trainer' more so then the tack that they use.

Some people feel the bit and bridle is used to control a horse. And the bits are used as tools of enforcement.

Other people feel the bridal is just another tool to communicate with the horse.

Trainers / riders that are effective at communicating and traning typically go "lighter" with head gear as training progresses ( up to the point of no head gear at all)
People that rely on force and domination will often need to increase the severity of head gear (bit) as the horse's mouth toughen up and are less sensetive and responsive do to the constant force used in their mouth.

So as usual, it's more the training technics used, not the tack that is used.

Many of the native Americans became expert horsemen with no tack at all except a simple jaw rope......

[CarolU]

This is a good discussion Rueben. Since I have a horse that I ride with a shanked bit, with a comfort snaffle, with just a jaquima, or without any headgear at all, I can attest to the differences I see in one horse with different kinds of tack.

BTW - I don't care for the Dr. Coook kind of bitless bridle for Paso Finos. It may be fine for other breeds, and in fact have a girlfriend who uses one on her TWH - who was show-abused by terrible hands, and goes NUTS whenever you put a bit in his mouth. He is very calm and controllable with the Dr. Cook bitless bridle, but his gait is not the best without some collection. I think if people want to ride Paso Finos bitless, they are better off with the jaquima, which is designed for the breed.

First of all, all horses are built differently, and the same bit one horse carries one way will have a very different affect on another horse. This is true for both snaffle and shanked bits. The width of the mouth bars, the location of teeth, the preferences of the horse, all are different with different horses. The trick is to watch and listen to the horse and adjust tack as needed for what you want to achieve. Some horses are very mouthy and will play with shanks unless you have a roller in the bit. Some have been hurt by bits and will be nervous regardless of the fit or make of the bit.

There is not a single piece of headgear that is not designed to work with pressure and (usually) training the horse to move away from that pressure. The exception is those who maintain constant pressure, where you teach the horse to push into the pressure. I don't consider this particularly humane to not have a release for the horse and won't disuss it further, but know that many trainers do this, putting horses 'on the bit,' and many amatures hold onto the horse with the reins and do the same thing for no good reason at all.

Making a choice in which headgear to use, is really thinking through what you want to accomplish and how best to do that. Snaffles put all pressure in the mouth, on the roof of the mouth, on the gums, or across the tongue, depending on the type of snaffle. They are designed for disciplines that use direct reins, and are frequently used to transition a horse from direct to indirect reins.

The Colombian shanked bit is designed to maintain light contact first, which puts pressure on the chin (curb strap) and poll (headpiece) first to bring the head in and up. It only engages the roof of the mouth (spoon) when the reins are pulled further back. I wish Cindy or Lynn or someone would step in here, because I believe that the angle of the spoon to the port will also affect how the horse carries the bit so it is disengaged, i.e., holding the head in more. The Mylers bits with bushings in the shanks are designed to work in a SIMILAR (not same) manner, and to have curb contact with mild rein contact.

A regular shanked bit is designed to leverage the top of the port of the bit between the roof of the mouth and curb. Severity is increased with higher ports, longer and straighter shanks, and longer purchase (the part of the shank above the port).

Jaquimas can be made to put pressure either over the nose (bosal), under the chin (curb), or both, depending on what you want to do with the horse.

In all cases, the quicker the release by the rider, the softer the horse will be. Parelli has a saying, "Hands the close slowly and open quickly," meaning you gradually squeeze, increasing the pressure slowly in increments, but release the INSTANT the horse responds. The horse will learn to respond with less and less pressure and pretty soon be fingertip control.

If you train this way, your horse will never get heavier, but instead get lighter and lighter.

[reuben T]

I've seen Pat P several times and read all his material, the emphasis on instant release is good, combine with that what Tom D said, "reward the thought" and it's a good training system.
Then John L explained, "start with something the horse knows and build on it one tiny step at a time". Which is basicly what the whole natural horsemanship philosophy is all about.
I see the bridal and bits as communication tools, and am of the opinion that the more skilled the trainer the fewer and lighter the tools need to be.
However perhaps that only applies to trainers who work in that direction. There seem to be some very skilled trainers who have a huge selection of bits of all kinds, and may have a use for most of them at some time or other.
In one of the training books i have it tells about a riding school where a troup will ride bareback and bridalless doing a whole series of intricate manuvers with the rider giving no visible cues. Ever sence i read that in the early part of trying to learn training, I've seen that as the ultimate in training.
But as i work with a few horses, every one responds a little (or a lot) differently than the others and that's why good horse training takes so much developed skill, can't just learn a set way of doing it and think it'll work on every horse. I'm just getting a good start on basics. A mustang we've started with what's basicly a slightly padded iron bosal for a few short rides, then i started her in a snaffle and have done a few long rides, (8-15 miles ea.) she's gradually getting more responsive to it.