Define a "Trainer"

[CarolU]

I personally consider that anytime you do anything with your horse, you are training it. It may be something good, or bad, or just reinforcing what you have taught it before.

I would consider a "Trainer" anyone who actively works at training horses, and not necessarily a professional. But someone buys the tools and studies, and spends time training horses, weather full or part time. There are good trainers and there are horrible trainers that abuse horses...and may be full-time or part-time or total novices. They are still training, even when it is to fear humans and respond to mechanical force.

Now a HORSEMAN is someone who sees and understands different types of horses, recognizes them as individuals and trains each animal with dignity and respect, and strives to achieve the very greatest form of communication with each horse. A horseman puts the horse above any need for ribbons or championships and truely loves horses and horsemanship.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

:prancer here we are!!!!!!!!!


I agreed!!!!!!! one thing is to MOTHER and another thing is being a MOTHER!!!!!

[ErinC]

well put!

[Carol Nelson]

I agree totally, Carol...that's a perfect analogy! Referring back to like what Caliber said, anyone can be a "trainer" but not everyone can be a "horseman"....It's the true love of the animal that sets the horseman apart...and keeps that person from using and doing things that are not in the animal's best interest...
It's usually the love of the almighty dollar that sets the unscrupulous trainer apart from the horseman... :roll:

[Terry Wallace]

I personally consider that anytime you do anything with your horse, you are training it. It may be something good, or bad, or just reinforcing what you have taught it before.

Ditto that and the other comments you made CarolU. I too agree that horses are always "in training or in reinforcement of prior training".

For the GOOD of the horse.... to speak for the horse, to figure out what works best for each horse.... to put the horse above all else.
That is the challenge of training... taking a horse and getting a feel for it...getting to know its quirks and then getting it to respond with a willing attitude.
For example...going to the BLM and adopting a mustang, taking a totally wild horse and bringing it home and gaining its trust, turning its life around, show it something completely different and having it respond with trust.... that is the ultimate... having that horse look to you as the leader.

OR...just raising up your own home-breds and taking them from day one all the way to saddle training.... qualifying horses for nationals (Paso Finos) or having your own home-breds make it all the way to the AQHA Congress.... nothing could make me more proud than to raise a winner for both myself or someone else...
Raising and training a really great trail horse is right up there on my list of proud accomplishments too...

But then...just watching horses eat...makes me happy! Seeing them content... thats what it is all about.

[britzlove]

I suppose I'd share that idea pretty much. As well as reckonizing that horses, and people are always learning. Unless the learning truly shuts down, which can happen...and it's so very sad. But healthy people and horses are always learning always teaching, and I don't believe either is complete alone.
True communication is sending and recieving, learning and teaching simultaneous when at optimum success.

A professional trainer is someone who is paid to train, however the manner.
There are also professional horsemen whom I've been blessed to watch, and share with. Many of them are relatively unknown in public circles, with small client lists.
I believe a professional horseman, or horseman (unpaid) is someone whose mastered a deep relationship of communication with horses.

[Pam M]

While I agree that anyone who actively works with a horse is engaged in training, I don't believe that this makes them a "trainer", any more than me giving my own injections makes me a "doctor" or writing a letter to the editor makes me a "writer". You can be engaged in a process - doctoring, writing, training - but still not be adept in that field.

I've busted my butt working my horses, with great results, but I'm not anywhere remotely close to being a "trainer" - a term and a profession that I respect and don't use loosely.

To me, one should earn the term "trainer" through experience and education sufficient enough to make them professional in their knowledge and skills. I also believe a trainer, like an artist, must have an inherent talent that many of us - no matter how much we love our horses - don't have. It's too bad that horse trainers don't have licsening criteria like other professionals - doctors, realtors, lawyers, teachers, etc. As it is, anyone can hang out a sign and be a "trainer".

[reuben T]

ye started out saying it about as good as i could have.
the terms used will mean slightly different things to different people, as is already evident. But I see "trainer" in it's simplest sense as meaning anyone who gets near the horse, in it's more refined sense as someone who intentionally does something to change the horses response to certain stimuli.
And the term horseman could be taken to be anyone who does anything with a horse, but i think is usually used to mean someone who is more in tune with the nature of them, doing more of what we could call "resistance free" horse handling, although that term has been used by a certain trainer to describe his own system.
It's interesting that all horses are looking for a herd leader, they either need to find a good leader to follow or be one themselves, and a good trainer needs to understand that and know how to become the herd leader that their horse is looking for. There have been some relativly good trainers who didn't understand the herd sychology, but in observing their methods I see a distinct element of herd leader principals in it, even though they may have been drastically different in actual practice than some modern trainers that do understand it.

[Jasfino]

One who seeks to master the art of communication between horse and human.

A good trainer builds communication through respect, trust, consistency, and patience.

Never underestimate the intelligence of the horse. The horse himself can become a competent trainer of the human...which is seen more often than we care to admit.... ;-)

[CarolU]

This thread has neither right or wrong answers. I just want poeple to define what the word "trainer" means to them.

I did want to clarify two things in my definition, so they are not misunderstood. One is that I believe there are very excellent trainers who accomplish great things with horses, who are not "horsemen." Trainers who turn training almost into an artform. You see them in all disciplines, from dressage to reining, to racing, to most show disciplines, polo, etc. They do great things, but a horse is a horse, and winning is all important, even if means what could be considered fairly harsh methods. And just so NO ONE takes this personally, let me use the Kurd form of Dressage as an example. Those horses are trained to the nines. But they are undertucked and overflexed, on the bit constantly and spured at every step. I do not see that respect or the comfort of the horse is high on their list of concerns.

On the other side, I don't want to limit the term "horseman" to just the American (and one Autrailian) who practice 'natural horsemanship' that people in North America frequently associate with the word. There are true horsemen the world over from all kinds of backgrounds. Klaus Hempfling is a famous example in Spain, but there are probably a 100 times as many real horsemen that are not famous at all, and go about training horses, based more on building relationships with the individual horse, then obtaining specific rewards or winning.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

This thread has neither right or wrong answers. I just want poeple to define what the word "trainer" means to them.

I did want to clarify two things in my definition, so they are not misunderstood. One is that I believe there are very excellent trainers who accomplish great things with horses, who are not "horsemen."
.




CarolU, Now that statement is very confussing!!!!!!!!

is like saying THE CATHOLIC POPE IS NOT CATHOLIC!!!!!!! :confused

[Terry Wallace]

I understand exactly what you mean CarolU. I have known a few trainers like that... Methodical people who pretty much "strong arm" and rush horses through a prescribed ritual. Without much regard for the horse.

Seen too much of that in the QH world I came from... ;-)

[CarolU]

Felix, I am sorry if it confused you.

People have their own definitions, some haven't even thought about it to decide which is what.

What I clarified was MY own definition. It wasn't saying that what others define as trainers or horsemen has to be the same as mine. After reading some other respondents, like Rueben's, I felt it necessary to clarify that my definition of "horseman" is not refering to any specific person or method.

[Candice Burger]

Well, I'm not in entire agreement Carol, although your definition is excellent.

I don't see trainers that do great things as them doing the great thing--they are fortunate to have great horses that do great things inspite of the fact that it appears to be the trainer and not them. Truly a gifted horse and a blessed trainer. Because when it comes to a trainer who thinks he does great things and must work with less gifted, talented horses, they are not longer great. I have seen gifted, talented, great horses, make many a rider/trainer appear great.

It becomes a vicious cycle of preception and deception. Suddenly the trainer is great, he does great things with a horse and gets great horses with talent that keeps him great. On the other hand, I've seen the same type of rider/trainer never end up with this lucky draw that never becomes great. Owners draw into the deception and perpetuate this lucky trend.

To me there are no such thing as a great trainer that is not a great horseman first. They are great because their pleasure is the work they do together with the horse and they acknowledge the horse for its greatness. They are not great because they win or compete or get rich by training rich men's horses. They are great because they love what they do, who they are and know they are blessed to have the ability to do it.

We forget the horse is designed for tolerance and forgiveness, so the next time you see a "great" performance with the horse contorted to the unnatural there's only one that is great in the pair. It ain't the human because if it were, he'd have the humility to be as forgiving and tolerant and he doesn't.

While I agree that anyone who actively works with a horse is engaged in training, I don't believe that this makes them a "trainer", any more than me giving my own injections makes me a "doctor" or writing a letter to the editor makes me a "writer". You can be engaged in a process - doctoring, writing, training - but still not be adept in that field.

Why not? Just because I don't get paid and have the insurance to cover law suits doesn't make me less. I diagnosed the cause of my headaches better than my doctor, whom I've been complaining about pain every time I see him. The pat on the back and the statement of "getting old" "got old". I'm better than he is when it comes to my health. Am I degreed or learned in doctoring, nope, but I know me and my ills and he doesn't nor care to. If I write an article that is articulate, eloquent, concisely structured, then it is well-written. Published or unpublished, read or unread, accepted or unaccepted is not the measure.

Being a paid professional does not mean you know the best method, treatement or have the best knowledge. It only means you've studied the subject, been tested by your peers and mentors, have been found to provide satisfactory responses and therefore are approved to practice your chosen activity.

When you post, you are a writer; when you diagnose your head cold, you are a doctor; when you handle a horse, you are a trainer. When you know you are challenged beyond your understanding or ability is when you seek others who may have more knowledge or skill--that is all. It doesn't make you less; it only makes you wise. All professionals listen to their customers, clients, patients for advice and clues that will help them to serve them better. A trainer is a servant of his profession not the other way around.

[Jasfino]

We forget the horse is designed for tolerance and forgiveness, so the next time you see a "great" performance with the horse contorted to the unnatural there's only one that is great in the pair. It ain't the human because if it were, he'd have the humility to be as forgiving and tolerant and he doesn't.



:not worthy :not worthy :not worthy

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

Well, I still think that a GOOD TRAINER must be talented..... is a gift....
if you are by no means a HORSEMAN......... In my opinion, YOU WILL NEVER BE A GOOD TRAINER!!!!!! no matter who and what techniques you have or learned.


TALENT is BORNED not made.......... but can be perfected!!!!!!!!!


LIKE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!! if you dont have it , you will never get it!!!!!!!!!!

[Candice Burger]

So, is that a hint to quit singing out loud off key?? I'm hurt!

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

jejejejejejeje well, todays industries with the help of TECHNOLOGY, just about anyone can sing.......... but still does not make them a singer :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Cindy]

A trainer is..... OUT RIDING HORSES!!!!! Who on earth has the time or the energy to discuss what a trainer is? :rofl :rofl :rofl

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

A trainer is..... OUT RIDING HORSES!!!!! Who on earth has the time or the energy to discuss what a trainer is? :rofl :rofl :rofl


Cindy, get with it!!!!!! NEW COMPUTERS!!!!!! instead of LAPTOP they are MOUNTTOP!!!!!!! works wonders........

That way HORSE OWNERS can monitor their trainers!!!!!!!!! vid cams are inculded!!!!!!!
:lmao

[Cindy]

Yeah, right, Caliber. I won't even carry my cell phone. :lol:

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

And I respect you for that......... trainers should concentrate and dedicate the entire time to their job....... THUM UP!!!!

[CarolU]

I don't carry my cell phone either...

But do admit to coming in and reading the BB on potty and lunch breaks! LOL