Paso Fino breed comparisons

[LynnG]

What is/are the most common gaited breed comparisons today?

People new to Paso Finos ask: What is/are the difference(s) between Paso Finos and ____________? (what other breed)

PFHA has an info handout sheet about the comparisons/differences between Paso Finos and Peruvian Pasos.

I'm thinking I hear more from another breed with comparions may need to be included.

[Candice Burger]

My vote is for both the racker and TWH.

[sporthorse]

for the poll= I chose rockies but what I say about jennts is one third of the paso finos make up and paso finos are in all gaited breeds in America including USA but marsh tackies and Cracker horses need to be in the poll, Peruvians are certainly close also as a matter of fact the Andes are in Peru and Colombia and seperate the two as part of a border.
I personally think from what is historically chronicaled that the Spanish Jennet and the Icelandic are one and the same. The vikings/norsemen actually ruled(by piracy and occupation) virtually all seafaring and ports of trade in the mederterainian for many centuries and they raided and used horses they left on islands there for thier transport on raids. the icelandic is said to be put on iceland by the norse/vikings.either the egg or chicken came first,but transport from that far was not thier way each trip.but then the berbers horses from North Africa and what we know as the Adalusian/PRE spanish horses/Iberain we crossed over time and made an even more sturdy war horse suited for transoptation of greater distance.

[CarolU]

I think MOST people assume that Paso Finos and Peruvian Pasos are pretty close to the same breed, probably solely due to the shared name. In reality I believe the Rocky Mnt horses are the closest, indeed many of them ARE Paso Finos and are double-registered.

[Terry Wallace]

For me its Rockies. People here think Paso Finos and Peruvian Pasos are the same horse!

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

jejejejeje In my town people also thinks that Chinese and Japanese are the same too. :roll:

[reuben T]

dosn't it depend on what horse the questener is familiar with? if all they know is a QH, then that's all they have in mind to compare to. sence TWH and racking horses are the most commen gaited breeds, (i think arn't they?) they would likely be the most commen ones to compare to. but there's not much there to compare to. other than they're both equines and have a more or less ability to 4 beat gait faster than a normal walk. the twh is just a normal horse, as temperment and energy goes, and only maybe half smooth more or less. I've seen some that looked quite smooth, but the ones I've rode were only slightly better than a decent trottin horse. The trottin horses can be anywhere from a jackhammer ride to a soft easy to sit trot. The few paso fino's I've been on had an energy that was different, something that might scare a timid rider if they were used to a very calm schooling horse, or a dead broke dude string follow the leader horse. The few dude string horses I've rode, (only 1 recient enough to remember) was very over conditioned but poorly trained.

[AliceG]

Most trail riders around here have walkers or rackers. I was on a large organized trail ride a few months ago & while passing a couple on TWHs, the man said to his wife ... "that's what you need to get your horse to do...the running walk". We were, of course, doing a beautiful LARGO.

Later, at lunch, I tried to explain the gaits, but they were dumbfounded that my horse was "tall" and "sane" for a paso and they kept saying they thought he must be mixed with a walker. Drove me crazy.
:roll:

There is a common misconception that pasos will "take all day to circle an apple tree" and don't make good trail horses like walkers or racking horses.

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

[quote="AliceG"]

Later, at lunch, I tried to explain the gaits, but they were dumbfounded that my horse was "tall" and "sane" for a paso and they kept saying they thought he must be mixed with a walker. Drove me crazy.



AliceG, if you just look at Horse Illustrated Magazine May, you will find out why these poor people think the way they do.............

Dont blame them............... blame US!!!!!!!!! for allowing FALSED information be published........... in reference to our breed.

[Candice Burger]

TY Caliber! I was going to ask where did all of these misconceptions originate? From US! We are the ones if we don't like a particular aspect of the breed telling others about how it! That's how all these myths are started!!!

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

I agreed!!!!!

[Carol Nelson]

I am constantly being asked if my horses are the ones with the fancy paddling outward in the front feet. I say no, those are the Peruvian Pasos...mine are the Paso Fino and then I proceed to tell them about the corto and the largo. If I have a horse close..I demonstrate for them by putting it into gait. And I have to explain all over that they are two different breeds...only to have the people call them the "Peruvian Paso Fino". :roll:
I've ridden a Walker and I don't say I'd compare them to Pasos...a different kind of ride altogether...although both are smooth. The Pasos I've rode are much smoother though.
I've never ridden any of the others...but I have watched an Icelandic Fun Show and that looked like a different type gait altogether again...

[LynnG]

Why I asked is... PFHA has an info handout sheet sent out as part of a Marketing package to new people inquiring ... explaining the difference between the Paso Fino and the Peruvian Paso.

I wanted to explore how this sheet could be improved in way of info and if other gaited breeds should be included...

Has anyone here seen the "Pervuvians vs Paso Finos" sheet? On this note 10-15 years ago, PFHA tried to promote the "Paso Fino" with those 2 words PASO & FINO, and try to minimize just using the word PASO in referring to the Paso Fino. This would have helped differentiate between Paso Finos and Peruvians...and have them lumped together as PASOS by those who don't know the difference where they have to ask. But as time has gone by, PASOS have become a common term again amongst members.

Paso Finos ... "horses with the fine gait"
Peruvian Pasos ... "gaited horses from Peru"

Is this not basicly what their name says?

I am examining all of the info packet items to see what can be improved, what is not needed, etc to help market our breed more effectively.

[Fuego]

My equine chiropractor in Minnesota travelled the state doing equine chiropracty exclusively.
On his first visit with Chino he repeatedly asked me if i was SURE Chino was a Paso Fino.
Why did he keep asking? Because Chino had good ground manners and stood quietly while the vet treated him. Which was the first time he had that experience with a Paso Fino. Every other Paso Fino he experienced couldn't keep their feet still and were hyper, nervous and unruly while trying to treat them.

So it's NOT just the written word and verbal word that crates these myth's about our breed. The lack of training beyond gaiting in a circle for the show ring is also a contributor to the myths about this breed.

[Candice Burger]

That's said for any horse about lack of training and ground manners.

It is the handling not the horse. Again that is OUR fault for not learning or knowing how to put ground manners on a horse.

[Fuego]

I agree Candice.

Just relating what my experience has been. The majority of people that I experiene with misinformation about this breed is from their personal experience or the personal experiences of someone they know.

And the general misconception is they are a hyper crazy barely controlable breed of horse. Based on what they've seen with their own eyes.

I realize ( as do many others) that this not a true reflection of this breed but a reflection of poor training. However, if the only exposure new pople to the breed have is a few poorly trained hyper Pasos, what else would they think about the breed?

Rarely do I run into people that have misinformation about the breed from reading, it's usually from what they have seen with their own eyes.

[Candice Burger]

Oh, I agree with your comments too Fuego. True enough about watching some fiascos with pasos but again, I've seen it with most other breeds too.

Folks like to "forget" about that when they start talking about pasos because of this "brios" thing, which has been misunderstood by too many in the breed. So, it's a fine pandora's box we've opened up when other folks think that since pasos have brios that means they are idiots. We perpetuate it by thinking brios is displayed like a peacock in breeding season preening his feathers. If we want a horse with brios we think our horse has to behave like an eye popping, snorting, high-headed, high-tailed horse and tolerate bad manners because that's the brios. If the horse isn't misbaving then he has no brios.

So yeah, some farrier or vet shows up, the horse is freaked out because he's been taught that is what is expected, he runs over the vet or farrier and then we brag about pasos and brios. We think we should tolerate it from our horses because they are pasos--they're "special". Well, surely they are in that state of mind. Special indeed.

[Abejita]

I agree with Candice..it is not ALWAYS training and it IS in all other breeds..but Pasos have the bad rep.I have seen so many other horses with bad manners and such ..I also wonder if some of it is not the fact that many first time horse owners are tending to buy gaited, including Pasos..and just do not know better ..They either buy an ill trained or just a naturally hot paso being told that's normal? Or they create problems later on because they just dont know how to handle the horse
("oh..he/she is very sensitive thats why they dont like me to put the halter on them without giving them a carrot first..) It is individual horses. I have three 4 yr olds here that were all handled about the same..one is pretty laid back another can get a hair up his butt on occasion and the other is wired..sneeze and she jumps..She is always going to be that way..People assume all Pasos are like her ..even when they have never actually seen one (at least in my area-most people have heard and not actually dealt with one on a personal level) My previous vet basically badmouthed all pasos as being nuts.My dentist said if it wasnt for coming to our farm and doing teeth for another owner with a few pasos he would have thought they were all hard to deal with from previous experiences with Pasos..I too have gotten the remark about 'thats the quietest Paso I have ever worked on' when at New Bolton Center and from tghe massage therapist it was " was expecting him to be really hard to work on ( she had never worked on one before) MOST of these people have never read the literature or even talked to a Paso owner..just word of mouth. I also think some people see how our horses work under saddle on the show videos and just assume they are ALWAYS 'on' I know I have heard that..they must not watch the lineup..where they stand there with their heads a hanging..not like some other breed shows i have watched where they jig around and have to keep moving while in a line up..

I still think the best way to change people's mindset it to get them on or around well behaved horses.We can put out literature but since we all know there IS no comparision(lol) its just a wasteof precious PFHA funds isnt it??(joking)

[pprpaso3]

In my opinion the Paso Show ring is the reason all Pasos are assumed to be "little horses doing tiny really fast steps and going nowhere that are snorting fireballs." This is basically what I see in the shows today and what is promoted and what wins in most classes except Country Pleasure, and Western Pleasure and maybe Paso versatility.

At the Ocala Classic they announced the Pleasure Stallion class going in and I was shocked to see all these horses going in that sure didn;t look like a "pleasure" horse to me....they looked at least Performance and almost Fino!

I took my "Pleasure" stallion to a couple all breed shows and because of his calm temperament people asked if he was a Rocky Mountain and one person this past month asked me if Frost was a TWH? They only saw him in hand and not being ridden but Pasos arent; supposed to be sweet and quiet as from what people are seeing in the shows and on RFDTV. The hype is FINO, FINO.

Well I will tell you the average JOE wants a nice quiet horse they can handle on the ground and on the trail. So what market are we really appealing to in the showring? Other show people? Paso Breeders? It is very sad to see how the "true" Pleasure horse has been pushed out into a very few classes now that are left . At least I do see the Largo races coming back now.

In my experience a horse with a lot of Spirit or Brio is harder to handle than a quieter horse. I've owned Pasos with lots of Brios and they are harder to handle and if they just hear some noise they freak and if your're doing something like cleaning out their foot...look out! God forbid it starts to rain or thunder while you are in there.....

Carol you just keep breeding those "nice" Pasos horses. The average person still wants the kind of Paso that is a "Pleasure" to handle on the ground and on the trail.

Oh and for the survey Rocky mountain and Icelandic. THe TOLT of the Icey is very smooth and a lateral 4 beat gait that can be performed at various speeds. That very fast Flying Pace is actually a 2 beat diagonal gait and is only for racing and showing sort of like the Fino, Fino gait in Pasos is mostly for show(definately not for racing though).

[Candice Burger]

What happened to the slogan "gentle at hand, spirited under saddle"? That was OUR slogan for pasos!!! And to me that is the TRUTH!!!

We have our exceptions; most though that I've been around really, really don't want to be in that state of mind. Show them another way and most want to please you and do it like a dead head when at hand.

About that flitting around with other breeds. I've seen that too on line-ups. TWH trainers had a saying that there were only so many times you could bring a horse "up" after he's been "down". Down meaning "pleasure" ridden and not trained with the focus on showing. They thought if you took a horse out of training and let him rest in the pasture or flat shod him, he'd only have so many times you could get him back into show shape again--hot and ready to go. I was warned ALLOT about pleasure riding my show pasos. They thought if you had one you were showing you should only focus on tweaking the performance for show and nothing else. Otherwise, you'd end up with a half-baked performance in the show arena.

I thought that weird. Maybe that's why American breeds can't stand still or behave once in the line-up. Poor horses are tuned up and trained to be "on" all the time. Might be why we see some problems with Pasos once on the ground. Our breed is the opposite. We don't need to be smashing that on button all the time. Once is all it takes. They need to know it's ok to be off.

[Abejita]

In my experience a horse with a lot of Spirit or Brio is harder to handle than a quieter horse. I've owned Pasos with lots of Brios and they are harder to handle and if they just hear some noise they freak and if your're doing something like cleaning out their foot...look out! God forbid it starts to rain or thunder while you are in there.....

But see there again..You are even a breeder of Pasos and you label THAT brios..(if they just hear some noise they freak) and it isnt ..That is just a horse who is on edge and wired ..which can happen in ANY breed.
Candice may disagree with me. ;-) .but to me brios is heart and confidence, that drive to work for the rider and the extra something that makes these horses grab people's attention.Makes these horses look at you with that "I'm A Paso Fino..I'm special..who the heck are you?" look 8-) Its described as a CONTROLLED Fire..It ISNT the ones that freak out at a sneeze..(like my filly LOL..actually she is getting much better)I have never described her actions on the ground as Brios.I have described it as a screw loose...But under saddle she is different..She is also still green..In
ANY BREED a horse with a lot of spirit is going to be harder to handle,not just pasos. I would love to lurk on an Arab board and see if they have THAT discussion or is it just like us..those not in the breed do not understand it? I agree most Joe's want a nice quiet trail horse..I myself like a little go ..I dont want to have to constantly be thumping its sides to get it to go (I have watched to many Pony Club Sunday sessions in the last 2 years) I also dont want to have to be constantly asking to slow or calm down..

[CarolU]

I don't consider brio related to 'spookiness'. There are spooky horses in all breeds. Some horses just are not born with a big dose of self-confidence.

To me Brio is the GO-GO gene. There are some Pasos born with little go-go genes, but there are not many that you have to kick to get to move. But Brio can be hard to handle and it scares many people. These horses like to go, like to see what is over the next hill, and depending on brio, like to do so fairly quickly. Even spooky ones like to go, go, go.

They will wear you out a lot sooner then you'll wear them out, so all these 'horses are basically lazy' methods do not work on them.

[pprpaso3]

Yep I agree with you there are "spirited" horses in every breed but Arabians and Pasos come to mind when that word "spirit" is used.

I have ridden arabians and they are so much fun to ride with the forward going nature. One I rode was very smooth and had only a tiny bounce in her trot becasue she took such small steps.

I also have owned 4 Icelandics ...all were very quiet and freindly on the ground but fireballs under saddle and very smooth. A little strong willed and can be stubborn though and a little hard to stop sometimes.

Also owned Appys and had different temperaments of Apps. Had one really great one and a couple not so great. Appaloosa also has a reputation of being sprited but most of the time I've heard them refered to as "crazy". There can be crazy horses in every breed too.

Then I got my ppr paso. Had other pasos that weren;t like her. Really loved her temperament . Easy to ride, forward moving, smooth, stop on a dime.....this is what I like.

Temperament is number one to me. The horse can be beautiful, gaited like a machine and have bloodlines to die for but if I don;t like the temperament I don;t want it. I have to deal with that horse everyday ....

[Abejita]

There can be crazy horses in every breed too

YES That is something I think more people need to realize..They are few and far between (the ones that are born that way and stay that way)So many people dont want to admit some horses just come out like that ..and it might be breeding or it might just be a fluke. But some people will take a crazy horse and make the excuse that its that way because 'It's a (insert breed here) horse" Or they automatically assume the horse was abused..

I think our PFHA literature doesnt do enough to also point out that Pasos are also just horses. People think they need certain hoof angles...a specific saddle...etc etc.I hear it all the time at the Expos. To word the brocure that yes many times the horse can function better if there is a problem with some 'specific' paso tack , but all in all they are still horses. I know there is only a finite amount of space in those things so it isnt easy to 'cover all the bases' Again thats where things like Expos and clinics and I think especially these BB's can really help.I ALWAYS point people to local trainers and these BB's telling them to ask questions..

[Fuego]

No question that "bad" examples of every breed exsist.
The problem is for every crazy QH a person sees, they've also seen 100 QH's that are quiet and nice horses and realize that one particular horse isn't typical of the breed.

But due to limited numbers, many people only have 1 or a few actual Paso Finos that they have first hand experience to base an opinion, and if the few Pasos they have experienced have been poorly trained freaked out Pasos, and they talk to other people that have had the same experience/impression, they have no reason to think anything else about the breed.

I've never lived anywhere where Paso Fino farms/ breeders were plentiful. Therefore, one farm selling poorly trained freaked out Paso Finos can have a huge impression on many people in a large area.

Like here in Ky., people see enough of the common QHs and TWHs to realize a crazy hyper QH or TWH is just one bad example of the breed.
But when they only have one source or very limited exposure to Paso Finos, and their only experience has been hyper freaked out poorly trained Pasos, they ASSUME that is what the entire breed is.

[AliceG]

Yesterday, hubby & I went on an organized trail ride sponsored by our saddle club. Our pasos were somewhat excited at first (lots of new horses/new place/new sights), but very controllable & well behaved. Good ambassadors for the breed. And then, along comes freaked-out-sideways-moving-scared-to-death-nutty paso. People were scattering to get out of their way. Rider hanging on with scared look on her face but not really riding. I think they were 'feeding' each other's fear---probably both needed lots of training. Everytime we encountered them, it was the same deal...total chaos. Talked to others (including one paso rider) who felt the same. Bad bad example of the breed, but then there were those who said 'yep---a paso'. Like they expected it. P.O.ed me - the only bad acting horse in the whole 24 or so bunch, :roll: and it just confirmed the beliefs of some folks. :mad:

[Candice Burger]

Candice may disagree with me. .but to me brios is heart and confidence, that drive to work for the rider and the extra something that makes these horses grab people's attention.Makes these horses look at you with that "I'm A Paso Fino..I'm special..who the heck are you?" look Its described as a CONTROLLED Fire..It ISNT the ones that freak out at a sneeze..(like my filly LOL..actually she is getting much better)I have never described her actions on the ground as Brios.I have described it as a screw loose...But under saddle she is different..She is also still green..In


Nope I AGREE 100%. Boy, I ask this allot because I still don't have the answer...where did this idea about brios here in the USA paso breeders start???? Folks mistake temperament as brios or not brios. Or horses that are fearful or horses with bad manners. Or stupidity as brios.

I think our biggest problem is our horses have become more advanced than the owners or breeders. We have inadvertently selected for traits we think are "brios" and they aren't. So now we have comments within our own ranks talking about how "show" horses are these fire-breathers or of horses past that didn't have the brios of today's horses. I admantly disagree with both statements.

We can breed in more sensitivity to surrounding actions. That's not brios.
We can breed in less stability in the mind. That's not brios.
We can breed in "temperament", "spirit" if you will. That's not brios.

I consider all a type of unsoundness that causes an overreactive response without consideration of it's enviroment or handler. It is NOT brios. What we are seeing in today's show ring is NOT brios. It is a response to selective traits. As a result of breeding in such traits, it is a response to dull training techniques which have not adjusted or modernized to the type of horse bred. Make a more "spirited", "sensitive", "temperamental" horse then make the handling techniques for such a horse. We have not. We've made the horse but have not adjusted our techniques. We excuse it by calling it "brios". No the horse is too temperamental, too unsound in the head, too thin-skinned or "spirited".

Brios underlies all of this. There are plenty of horses with supreme brios that do not transmit their expression in their feet or performance. Something some of us call "energy". Lots of brios but it doesn't transfer into quicker feet or higher heads or eye-popping snorts. The horse simply becomes "tuned" to every movement of the rider. If the rider relaxes or releases, so does the horse. Many mistake this "energy" to be brios. Brios can enhance a performance. Something we talk about "putting the brios in the feet". Meaning teaching the horse to focus on his performance instead of having his mind wander around.

Brios is the additive that when you need a little more, the horse tries to give you what you've asked whether he can or not; he still tries. It goes both ways not one way. Sheri said it best--it gives the horse "class".

Our problem is not only do pasos have brios they also have allot of other elements that when combined provide overreactive responses to a situation. I don't really agree with this perception; I think the response is normal and the other types of breeds rather dull-headed, awkard, and heavy. Most Americans introduced to pasos haven't been around it and so think there is something "special" about the breed (you got that right), hear a term they've never heard before, "brios", and then logically presume that all of this stuff the paso does is called "brios". No, I just think American breeds have been dummied down for centuries and allot of that removed. It's scary, unpredictable, and frustrating to be around a horse that is this smart, sensitive, expressive, lots of character and have brios to boot. So we blame the horse for it's "brios" when we are the ones who are dull-headed, awkard, and heavy around a paso. Now we're breeding the things and still haven't learned the fundamental elements that makes the horse a paso and haven't come to grips with the brios thing.