When is a bay not a bay???? When she's a DUN!!!

[motorgypsy]

We're so excited. Our three year old filly out of our PPR red bay mare by our silver slate grulla dun stallion was registered as a bay - but . . . . her color has never been "right". She's just too caramel colored and too light. Well yesterday we were out in the bright sun and Kyle says "Adriel has leg bars!!!" We ran and got the camera and this is what we saw. Yes they are faint but they surely appear to be there. Her mother is a "wild" bay and someone mentioned that wild bay might mask dun and I think this may indeed be true.

Here she is - Galadriel's Amulet AKA Adriel

Her too pale and not red coat color

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0172.jpg

the pronounced darker reddish center with pale creamy sides on her face.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0174a.jpg

rear leg bars - faint but really there

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0183a.jpg

dorsal stripe - faint but distinct

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0178a.jpg

front leg striping

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0167a.jpg

We're really excited. Her coloring really had us baffled but dun would explain it. She is significantly lighter by the way than our lightest bay, Brandy who is really light orange flame color.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_1429a.jpg

and a lot lighter than her mom who has no stripes at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0186.jpg

[ErinC]

my red bay has a LARGE dorsal and leg bar markings. ( with some blond hair - on the back of his legs )
but he is for sure a bay!

:-?

[Mellifluous]

Her mom does not appear to be a wild bay? But, as long as one parent is dun, there is still a chance of dun.

The dorsal looks like countershading, but I do agree about the buff color being odd for a bay.

Do you have a full body shot?

[motorgypsy]

Erin if he has leg bars and a dorsal why is he for sure a bay? There are many duns who are "bay colored" who are "bay duns". Dun body color can vary from the palest cream to almost black bay with all shades of red and silver in between. The definitive indicator is the leg bars and we've never seen them on Adriel before now. They are obviously very faint but they are there.

Now her dad and grandmother have huge dorsals and painted on leg bars but SloughP, our florida Cracker who is also a bay dun has much more subdued markings like Adriel and is about the same color.

This is SloughP,our wild bay dun Florida Cracker but we got him as a fiveyear old and his leg bars were always there even though they are faint. If you didn't look closely you would think he was a bay.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0379a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/CRW_1705.jpg

Mel here's a full body but it really doesn't show her color too well. Her dorsal may look muddy because she hasn't shed her winter coat on top totally. We have two horses with countershaded dorsals but neither are duns - no dun parents and no leg bars. As I mentioned - we registered Adriel as a bay ourselves but always thought here color was strange.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_0189.jpg

[motorgypsy]

Here's one more at higher resolution with our SLR at a slightly different angle but showing better contrast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IMG_2102a.jpg

[Terry Wallace]

Definite dun "factor"...but real dun as dun is defined? Nope...

My palomino has dun factor...coutershaded dorsal..very visible... faint leg barring..hard to tell under all that "chocolate"...but dun as dun is defined...Nope. I maybe could get away with calling him "dunalino"... but will he produce dun? Not likely unless of course bred to a dun.

My bay stallion has a "real" dorsal stripe it black on a bay cost... no leg barring...has dun factor ..but dun as dun is defined...Nope.

Bay coat color has a very wide range...from buff to brilliant red, to almost black...

My good friend has a true bay dun, out of a chestnut mare and by Jaranero...dorsal stripe and leg barring galore..very defined...on a bay coat. Bay dun for sure...

[PasoVicki]

Definite dun "factor"...but real dun as dun is defined? Nope...

Terry: What's the difference between "dun factor" and "dun as defined"?

Do you recall the photos of Capri I posted a couple of months ago? They showed a very clear dorsal stripe, very clear ear striping, and faint but clear leg bars on a blackish to dark brown body. You said you'd classify him brown dun (he's registered as black). Not that it makes any difference, since he's been gelded, but would you classify that as "dun factors" or "dun as defined"? (Keeping in mind that he *could* have a dun gene, since his sire is registered as dun -- is always called grullo -- although I've always had my doubts as to whether that is accurate.) Would a non-gelded horse, with the same markings, be able to pass true dun coloring to offspring?

Dun is one of the most confusing colors to me.

[Terry Wallace]

First...lets not forget that any horse can have primitive markings. They don't have to be dun. To be dun... (as descibed...as a RECOGNIZABLE dun on first glance..) they must of course have dorsal strip (BOLD) and easily seen leg barring... that would be the minimal requirement of dun...or what most people would not dispute as being dun (not talking about testing for..talking about what most people consider to be dun)

Some books will tell you that there must be "X" amount of easily seen marks...leg barring, cob webbing, shoulder stripes, often neck stripes, or some combination of dun marks to be "dun" and not just primitive markings... that the dorsal "must" be at east five shades darker than the body coat, that the points & dorsal colors "match" that the leg barring, cob webbing or what have you..pretty much matches...like a golden dun with black points, black mane & tail,black dorsal, black leg barring... etc.... marks that stand out, and are easily recognized. AND...of course the dilution gene in there somewhere.... the coat dilution.

Primitive marks are often confused with dun markings.
Here is a quote from one of my books...

Secondary action of the dunning gene:
A secondary action of the dunning gene is to produce zebra or primitive marks, such as dorsal stripe and leg barring. Occasionally these markings will be present as a separate factor in ordinary colored horses such as bays and chestnuts, but they are not as pronounced. Not all primitive markings need neccesarily appear at the same time in an individual, but with RARE exceptions a TRUE dun will have dorsal stripe, mask and leg barring.

The primer for dun states:

Duns have minimal irridescence, and ALWAYS have a prominant dorsal stripe, mask and leg barring.

The dunning gene is prominant so its presence is visible and affects all base colors.

The dunning gene lightens out the body of the four base colors and leaves primitive markings the same color as the mane & tail...

(that last sentence is what I mean by "dun as described"...if you have a black mane & tail..you have a black dorsal, black leg barring, etc... "recognizeable"..you don't have to hunt for the primitive markings..they are dark & clear.)
If you are "hunting" for primitive markings... then it isn't dun. If the primitive markings are easily seen... stand out against the hair coat, and are same color as mane & tail... you have "true" dun...that will in turn be capable of producing dun.

[Mellifluous]

A dun test should be available soon.

That will be nice!

[Pinto Paso]

The dun "test" is one the US Davis has been working on the longest - I was told that it was one they thought would be identified first but some 10+ years later they have still not unraveled it.... What have you heard Mel?

[Candice Burger]

I've got one MGs. Not sure if she is bay or dun. She has a definite dorsal stripe, wither bars, and the face mask. Problem is she inherited the wild bay markings, so where the leg bars should be, she is very light red/bay instead of black there. The bars, if they exist, are light colored and fade. The only time I think I see the bars is when she sheds her winter coat. At a distance, she would appear as a red bay. She has none of the fading in her coat color typical of bay duns. It is very deep, rich, red bay with no golden/brown tones to it.

I took some pics and need to upload to post them.

Her sister, a definite wild bay, has faint counter shading on the dorsal, no barring on the legs (even my imagination can't work on this one), no face mask and very faint counter shading on the withers.

The dam of the fillies is a wild bay mare with NO counter shading at all.

The sire is the condundrum. He is wild bay, grey registered as such, but he has produced classical duns with two mares. One mare is wild bay, roan with no counter shading and one that is bay, grey. I thought his markings were counter shading and not dun because his dam, also a wild bay had similar type markings and never produced a dun. He did not have the obvious leg barring. His dorsal and wither bars weren't very distinctive or defined. I may have some pics of him as a colt before he went grey.

So, I'm wondering if wild bay masks or influences the dun expression. Unfortunately the two obvious duns are also greying so their marks are slowly turning white.

[Mellifluous]

The dun "test" is one the US Davis has been working on the longest - I was told that it was one they thought would be identified first but some 10+ years later they have still not unraveled it.... What have you heard Mel?

I have read/heard that it could possibly happen by the end of the summer??

[Terry Wallace]

Speaking of DUN! here is a filly I worked with on Monday. She is a Capuchino granddaughter, she is by the stallion Pocono owned by Denise Ireland. the filly is Irish Rose owned by Suzie Tiller, president of our Colorado chapter here. This filly has a black dorsal, and a cob webbed face...as does her daddy. I didn't get a photo of the front of her face...but the cob webbing comes down to right above eye level... her leg barring can be seen clearly from a distance... I know you can't really see the dorsal..but it is black & bold against that light coat. She has the black tipped ears also.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/twobarwpaso/IrishsideviewTBstyleEMAIL.jpg

[Terry Wallace]

Opps..I forgot about this shot...here is her dorsal....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/twobarwpaso/IrishrearviewEMAIL.jpg

[Candice Burger]

That would be good news to me!!!

I've got some weird color coat combos going on here. The dun colt is a fading black, dun, grey. His mane is almost silver now, his body is still black with some minor white flecking and he's getting patches of white on his feet and legs. :-? Nothing like the typical grey pattern. I thought the points were supposed to stay black and the body turn white. Not this guy.

Oh, and "someone" asked about the differences in hillbillies and rednecks.

Can you say "inbred"? One is born and never has more than 2-3 teeth and the other loses all but 2-3 teeth in bar fights.

[Sharon B]

I am also waiting on the dun test. I know I have one mare here that has dun factor but is not a dun but she has produced a dun. The sire was not a dun so it had to come from her. I have also had a bay with dun factor and as he matured, the color changed to a dun color.
Sharon

[ErinC]

MG
I was always told he was a bay with primitive markings.
and he comes from all Bays and Grays.
:new confused

[motorgypsy]

Erin I understand but would bet you anything there is dun under one of those greys. Just for curiosity's sake I'd check the colors thrown by both his parents and see if any duns are registered but as I mentioned, duns can be extemely dark or red or you name it. All kinds of weird colors. We just try to put them in categories but of course like everything else they just don't all fit.

Our very obvious dun buckskin colored mare has a grey daughter from a breeding to Monarca de Besilu who died not too long ago. The daughter of this breeding was bred to Cappuchino. Now the kicker is - not only was the foal a dun but he is also a palomino dun. We know where the dun came from but not the creme gene.

Terry - a registry may certainly have certain requirements for a horse to be considered a dun but in my book the only requirement for a horse to be a dun is that the horse carries the dun gene/s and therefore will throw 50% duns when bred to non dun horses.

You guys may remember that we own three really really pronounced dun horses - Vanidosa (linda) who by the way is the extremely rare brown pointed dun on a very very pale cream background so she may carry the creme gene also, Magnifico de Besilu who got his dun from Vanidosa, his grandmother, and Brilliant Bill's Amulet who got his dun from Vanidosa by way of his father, Magnifico de Besilu. So we do know what a dun looks like.

SloughP, our Cracker horse is very obviously dun although he doesn't have the intensity in his markings - BUT - he is really a wild bay. His points only go over his fetlocks and this wild bay gene may be the reason his dun markings are very dark red gold rather than black.

WE registered Adriel as a bay but we are currently convinced that she carries the dun gene. We will of course get the test done when it comes out because we're very curious about it. So why are her markings so faint and late developing. She has a father with extremely intense dun markings and her brother has equally intense markings. Well a couple of possibilities. Perhaps there is more than one gene involved in the really dark dun coloration. Or perhaps like coat color, dun comes in different intensities, or perhaps it's an incomplete dominance type gene which can give varying shades like when you cross a red flower with a white flower and end of with pink or perhaps there is another separate gene that acts on dun that modifies it like perhaps the wild bay gene. It's fun to speculate

I have seen a bay plus dun, very obviously dun when you look closely, but from a distance this horse is a very very dark coppery brownish black. So how in the world did this happen? Add the soot/smut gene to bay plus dun. So requiring a certain contrast between the markings and coat does not make sense at all unless you just want a pretty horse because this very very dark horse was a dun - no question. And he was gorgeous!!!

Think about Sandy Mixon's stallion Bronce and add the dun gene to him. Still very dark but would have all the primitive markings. (I don't think he's dun is he SAndy???)

Terry one last thing in that description of dun - it says they aren't luminous or something like that. Well all our duns are very metallic and literally "glow in the dark" starting with the old lady. You can't see it on her as well in photos because she's so light in color but Sultan and Brilliant are extremely metallic. Don't know if that is a different gene or not but we like it anyway and I don't think it negates their "dunness". ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

a dunalino - we've seen him in person - very pronounced dun markings
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/elprincipededinastia.jpg

Magnifico de Besilu showing his metallic coat and dun markings

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/CRW_1693.jpg

Newborn Brilliant Bill with huge dorsal stripe. You can see why we registered Adriel as a bay. She looked like a bay.

SloughP showing his wild bay legs. He is an obvious dun but looks bay in this photo. He is a pale copper gold really.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/sloughpheight.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IM000419a.jpg

and finally our old lady, 24 year old Vanidosa, brown pointed pale cream colored dun, the originator of most of our dun horses (a Colombian import by the way)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IM000546a.jpg

[Kerry W]

Erin, is Lunares in his pedigree?

[ErinC]

yup

[ErinC]

he threw
12% were Dun
But
Illuminares
7% were Dun

[ErinC]

MG you have some cool looking horses!
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
have Color!


I found Juan Juan in the lines he was listed as a Buckskin, and Castellano
was a chestnut.
but besides that ....????

http://pasoregistry.com/db/Tree.asp?ID=111994

[Kerry W]

Illuminares was a bay horse, with a dorsal. Not sure if he had leg barring or not...if you've ever seen Rusel's stallion, Dancer...that is what he looked like. He produced 7% dun, but he also produced 7% grulla, which is dun too. Lunares also had some grulla babies, so you can add that to the mix. He also threw grey, so if you look at some of the offspring of those Lunares get, you'll find more dun. Not all duns are registered as duns. Sometimes horses registered as buckskin are duns too. PFHA isn't notorious for correct color identification. :lol: Typically, Lunares is considered a dun producing line...not 100% of the time, but I've seen duns from that line, that had no other source that I could find.

Rosada I believe, produced duns as well. Juan Juan was buckskin...pretty dark..had the sooty gene, not sure if he displayed dun or not. Don't know as if I've ever seen a pic of him that would let you see.

[Cindy]

Illuminares was registered as bay but he was not bay. I remember him as more of a dun or a buckskin. He was definitely NOT bay.

[motorgypsy]

That reminds me - our stallion is registered as a buckskin because he was born very pale cream but shed out to the silver slate color or "gun metal" as his breeder called him. So he's another dun plus black who's registered as a buckskin.

[Kerry W]

Illuminares was registered as bay but he was not bay. I remember him as more of a dun or a buckskin. He was definitely NOT bay.

See...I never saw him, but I've got the video they did of him when they syndicated him. In that, he was about the same color as Rusel's stallion??? :new confused

Did you ever see Norteno que si?

[motorgypsy]

If I remember correctly Dancer is a dun is he not???

[Kerry W]

Yes...that was kind of the point. Not all horses that are registered as bay, are bay. If you saw him from the road...would you say, "Hey...there is a dun?" And isn't a dun horse...what is defined as "dun", a bay horse with dun factor? Isn't there more than one shade of dun...like there is more than one shade of bay?

[DebJ]

Here is a pic of our baby, she will be 4 this summer, Ladybug is a red dun and her baby Lightningbug is a bay dun. One pic shows her dorsol stripe, the other pic shows her leg barring. She has black tipped ears too. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/DebJ22/IMG_0002.jpghttp://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/DebJ22/IMG_0003.jpg

[sporthorse]

throw a monkey wrench in and have a dunskin/buckskin/dun and you get some real combos. countershades and dunfactors or cobwebs and mixes of primitve marks and dilutes.dunalinos.
Erin just because somene has your "bay" horse coming from bays and greys does not mean the registered color is right. Obi is from a dunskin and chestnut /looks bayish but has most every dun or primitve factors/ he is registered buckskin. His sire Leo de Vez is likely dunskin and Leo's dam Puma T is likely dunskin from Poquito Senor/Cremello (likey perlino)and Gitanilla a bay by Riosa???xTriunfo(unknown?color but produced a rainbow of colors
23% were Bay
13% were Black
3% were Brown
3% were Buckskin
29% were Chestnut
3% were Dun
10% were Palomino
16% were unknown

[ErinC]

TRUE VERY TRUE!

thanks!

[Terry Wallace]

Terry one last thing in that description of dun - it says they aren't luminous or something like that. Well all our duns are very metallic and literally "glow in the dark" starting with the old lady. You can't see it on her as well in photos because she's so light in color but Sultan and Brilliant are extremely metallic. Don't know if that is a different gene or not but we like it anyway and I don't think it negates their "dunness".

No..it does not negate the dun gene... it just means that the color scientists feel that the irredescence is not associated WITH the dun gene...it would be coming from a different gene...similar to the gene that causes metallic sheen in Akhal teke horses for example.

One thing to remember when looking at color percentages on pasoregistry... they are far from being correct! I can't begin to tell you how many color mistakes are on Paso registry! :D

[JennLM]

mg,

Magnifico de Besilu made me faint. I am a grulla-a-holic.

On a sidenote - OMG all this Dun stuff is confusnig the crud out of me. Seems no one can seem to agree and for someone learning it, what do we do? Who do we listen to? How do we learn? :duh

The only surefire way is the testing for Dun right?

[Kerry W]

Yeah...when and IF they ever develop a test for it. :lol:

[JennLM]

Ok, if there is no test and no one can seem to agree, it makes things even moreso confusing ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

[Mellifluous]

I will put money on a test being available by the end of the year.

[Terry Wallace]

Jenn... its not really confusing...get yourself a copy of "Horse Color Explained" A Breeder's Perspective.... its really good info and makes it much simpler to understand than the more in-depth books.... I have lots of color books, but the one above is the one many people prefer because it is easier to understand.

[JennLM]

They have been doing it with Dexter cattle for a few years, testing specifically for the Dun gene. I would think horses would be soon as well.

[Kerry W]

I will put money on a test being available by the end of the year.

Ya think they'll have an HZ test to go with it?? That'd be SWEET!

[Cindy]

Did you ever see Norteno que si?
_________________


Possibly but not that I can recall.

[cowboy ed]

MG, what do you call that grulla stallion? is that magnifico?

also, your cracker horse definitely looks dun to me, not bay.

[motorgypsy]

Thank you for the kind comments on our grulla boy. He is actually much prettier "in person". Our horse sitter calls him our "silver beauty". Our grulla stallion's barn name is "sultan" or "the sultan of bee bop" but his registered name is Magnifico de Besilu. His dun came from his imported grandmother, Vanidosa (linda), and she may carry the creme gene or may be a rare true brown plus dun. As you can see in the picture her coat color is the palest of creams but her points are very very dark brown including her legs, mane and tail.

Our Cracker is a dun but he is wild bay plus dun. His points do not go above his fetlock and his dun markings are dark red gold rather than black which is the color of the dun markings on most bay plus dun horses including our stallion's son's markings. Brilliant Bill AKA Brilliant, is very very pale gold in body coat but his markings are black. SloughP is much darker in body coat - the same color as Adriel, our mystery faintly dun marked filly - than Brilliant, but his points do not show the contrast and we're speculating that he has a modifier that reduces the contrast. Adriel may also have it because her mother's points do not extend as high and have more light color in them than our other bay, Brandy and our buckskin, Chinook.

Now that you mention it Terry I don't recall seeing metallic duns on trail rides or at paso fino shows or rides. We just consider it normal because all but one of our duns have it. It's very likely some modifier that produces a hollow hair shaft. When I get my microscope I'll have to borrowing hair from different duns and check it out.

[nellie99]

I have a stud that I wonder if he's the rare brown dun mentioned? He has chocolate colored legs, his tiger stripes are that color, his dorsal stripe is a caramel color, and his eyes are amber. He also has the light frosting hair at his tail dock and mane, but his mane and tail are darker than his leg coloring is. His coat, which is a pale creme color, does not shine. He also carries the creme gene, which is what I presumed caused his coloring to be that lighter shade. He's thrown true duns (the majic marker dorsal, the tiger stripes etc), buckskin and perlino. I don't visit the forum often, so I have no idea how to post pictures of him. What have I got???

[Laura S]

WELCOME nellie!

To post pics...first you need to upload them from your computer onto a photosite. I use photobucket, but there are other sites. Photobucket is easy because once you upload them there, then you just copy the IMG button, and paste it in your message box here.

Your horse sounds beautiful!!

[nellie99]

LOL, I'm a computer dummy, I have no idea what a photosite is, then how to use he various picture IMG, or quote, or any of those buttons. I don't even know how to get an image next to my name like most of the posts I see. Sigh..........
Thanks for the compliment on Adonis, we think he's wonderful!

[motorgypsy]

http://photobucket.com/

This is the link for photobucket where you can post your pictures. It's free and there's no catch. Most of us use it.

Go to the website and follow the simple instructions and then you'll be able to post pictures on this forum. We'd love to see your boy!!!

Now you do have to put your pictures on your computer first before you can transfer them to photobucket. You do this with a scanner for regular pictures or use a digital camera and the cable that comes with it to put them on your computer. It really isn't hard and plenty of people on here can help you if you run into trouble. We just have to know where you are right now. If you have pictures already in your computer or if you are starting with photos printed from film.

Oh - one point - as I understand it a "dunskin" is a horse that has both the dun gene and the creme gene. Our Pistachio may well have been one since his mother is a true buckskin with a creme gene and his father is a grulla dun with the dun gene. They are usually pale in color with brown rather than black points, mane and tail. and all the dun markings too. But they must have at least one parent with a creme gene and one with a dun gene. Our Vanidosa may also be a dunskin but we haven't tested her for the creme gene and she was always bred to grey horses with one exception so all but one foal was grey which doesn't help us figure out if she is carrying a creme gene????

[nellie99]

Ok, he's on photo bucket, so how do I get those pictures in this message body? I click on Img and all I get is the Img in this message area, no instructions- I don't understand how to retrieve them! HELP!! [/img]

[nellie99]

Oh, I forgot to mention, Adonis is indeed a dunskin, he has produced dun, buckskin and perlino. His sire is a palomino, his dam a blue roan as I was told- I have not seen her. I suspect gray as I think she had one gray colt. I have a bay mare who was bred to a gray colt who's sire was a palomino, he must have had the creme gene since she threw us a darling buckskin filly- who did turn gray. Usually with the gray modifier, the foal is born it's base color, then turns the gray, right? I'm surprised you didn't get to see your foals colors to determine if the creme gene is in your mare. For $25 (per test) a guy in Arizona does color gene testing. I've used him for several horses. Unfortunately the dun test isn't available, that is one I think lots of folks are waiting for with bated breath! Me included! Here is his link: http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com/Equine.html

[Candice Burger]

Here's some pics of the filly I think is dun. Forgive her scrapy coat. She is the last to let loose of her winter coat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/mararichi/Zarolia/Zarolialeftside2.jpg

The mare in the background is also a bay dun; notice the difference in the coat colors.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/mararichi/Zarolia/Zaroliarightside.jpg

Leg bars. The bars come in faintly when she sheds her winter coat. She is outside 24/7 so during the summer they tend to fade. Also notice how far the red goes down her legs into her black points.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/mararichi/Zarolia/Zarolialegbars.jpg

Withers. The markings are clearer once she is completely shed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/mararichi/Zarolia/Zaroliawithers.jpg

Dorsal. Not a good pic, but the dorsal stripe is very sharp and can be easily seen a couple of inches in the base of her tail.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/mararichi/Zarolia/Zaroliadorsal.jpg

[PLEASURE PASOFINO]

nice looking mare you have there Candice!!!!!!!!!

[Candice Burger]

:oops: :oops:

Well, gee, thanks! I love my pasos. I wish she looked better.

Caliber you might want to know she is out of my Romancero Bravo daughter. I like her allot and her full sister too! I like what his daughters are producing and hope to get a few mares to him soon.

[Candice Burger]

Hey nellie99!

Once you have the pics in photobucket:

1. left click on the URL link. it should tell you it was copied
2. go to APF.com, click reply to post
3. click the image button (Img)
4. hit Cntl V
5. click the image button again

The code will look like this http://-------------------------- in your post. When you preview the post it should show the pic. After you submit the post the pic should show up.

If I can do it, anybody can. Ask Lori!!!

[nellie99]

Ok, here goes!!
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/GORGEOUS.jpghttp://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/hisdorsalstripe.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/hisgorgeousambereye.jpg

I think only one loaded? Don't mind his mane, he came here with nothing there- it's growing out.

[nellie99]

Ok, next picture, his dorsal- see how it's caramel colored? And he has the mane and tail frosting.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/hisdorsalstripe.jpg

[nellie99]

Now here's his amber eye. We just love this guy!! Nellie
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/hisgorgeousambereye.jpg

[JennLM]

Nellie,

Oh the horror of it all. You can just package that ugly boy and send him here. :twisted:

Will people please stop posting all these gorgeous horses? My eyes hurt from staring, my keyboard is short circuiting from drool.

[nellie99]

:lol: The husband goes with him, he is totally in love with that stud!
I agree, there are some right, drop dead, good loooking equines I've seen here!

[cristy]

Sorry Jenn, he is way too ugly to go to your place, horses that ugly MUST come to West Virginia!! He would fit in nicely here. :twisted:


I have one for you all, what color is this guy???

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q310/cristy5513/filly005.jpg
He has a mark on his withers too but you couldn't really see it in the pic, too much sun.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q310/cristy5513/filly004.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q310/cristy5513/filly007.jpghttp://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q310/cristy5513/filly008.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q310/cristy5513/filly001.jpg

[Heidi]

Cristy, yours looks like a red dun. Chestnut + dun.

[motorgypsy]

Interesting that he apears to have black in his tail. I'd go with red dun but does he have a creme dilute parent???

[JennLM]

:lol: The husband goes with him, he is totally in love with that stud!

I've already tried trading the hubby for a horse, doesn't usually work LOL

[nellie99]

Red dun! He's a red dun for certain! I have a red dun mare, and a new red dun colt. Actually, I have several duns here. What color would you call this filly? The shadow by her tail is my camera.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/backshowingdorsalstripe.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/rightside-good.jpg

[Heidi]

Buckskin (dunskin) going gray?

[Linda Y]

What a pretty face on that filly!

[Linda Y]

I used to own a dunalino QH mare. She was colored very much like the horse in MGs post, only much deeper gold. She was actually registered as a chestnut when born, and I had her changed to a palomino. She had a range of colors for babies. She was also VERY metallic. A gorgeous color in the summer.
Down the road from me are two Haflinger mares...both are the standard issue Haflinger color, chestnut with flaxen mane and tail. But one is just a blazing, glowing metallic. It is beautiful to see.

[motorgypsy]

sooty/smutty buckskin colored dun or sooty plus bay plus dun. Some of these sooty buckskin colored duns can be almost totally black on top. As far as going grey I can't tell from the photos because some buckskin duns have a lot of silver hairs mixed in the coat. Pretty girl!!

[nellie99]

The filly can't be buckskin. Her sire and dam are both bays, the dam turned gray. She has what appears to be an equal mix of light golden bay and gray hairs, that give her that light buckskin looking coat, but she's not a creme. I've called her a silver dun. What do ya'll think? I've never seen one like her. Her full older sister Myra is one of our best, she is very calm, has a floating corto, anybody can ride her, and she produces great babies. Christina will be 3 at the end of October, and I think her gait is even better by the looks of it- I can't WAIT to get on her!
Now I like the looks of the grulla I've seen here in the earlier posts, he's just beautiful! I think that stud I sent pictures of produced a grullo colt for me out of a mare who is a dark dusky buckskin who might be dun too. He is a mousy color with what appears to be a stripe. Foal coats are deceiving however, I can't wait for him to shed off. Anyone with any comments about what a grullo foals coat generally looks like? For instance I know a black born with a gray coat usually is a true black, but one born with a brown coat is a fading black. Here is a picture of my colt, see his very dark nose and eye area, and that is his dam behind him.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/5-23-07LS.jpg

[nellie99]

Let's try that photo again, novice that I am.....
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/5-23-07LS.jpg

[motorgypsy]

Perhaps I was unclear. A buckskin colored dun is just a bay plus dun with a very pale buckskin color. These horses do not have the creme gene. Only as I mentioned, bay plus dun. Now our colt who was very likely dun plus bay plus creme had silver hairs all through his coat. No grey. And his mom who is a true buckskin is so light in color some people think she's a grey. Her coat is full of really pale silver hairs. But she looks like she has the soot gene. Our pale golden buckskin colored dun has none of that sooty look to his coat that your filly has. If her mom was grey then she certainly could have the grey gene and that one would be really hard to call until she started showing the grey on her face because the frosting in the tail would mask the grey hairs in the tail very likely.

A buckskin colored dun who may be carrying the creme gene or may just be brown based.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/motorgypsy/IM000546a.jpg

[Laura S]

Nice pasos Nellie!! Glad you figured out how to do the pics too!

[nellie99]

Oh, I see, difference between a real creme gene buckskin with dun factor as apposed to a buckskin colored bay dun horse. On that light colored filly, I just assume she will go to the normal white gray as she ages, but I wonder if her dun markings will fade as well? My stud has both the creme and dun genes. My other stud is a dark deep gold buckskin and he has a dark stripe on his back, but I am not sure about it, I assume it's countershading. He is luminous, and has dapples. It will sure be nice when the dun marker is identified so the color can clearly be determined.

[Pasogirlz]

Nellie- :welcome
You have some great looking horses. I especially like your husbands stud. :love

[nellie99]

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I joined a long time ago but didn't often visit, but I was sent this particular thread by a friend, and it sure got me involved.
LOL, I tell my husband that is his horse, but I know I will be the one to ride him, since Robert is disabled- anyone who took their eyes off of Adonis for a moment can see him holding his cane. I let him dream though, it keeps him looking towards a future fun goal. Myself, I love that picture and all I see is that proud boy standing at high alert!

[JennLM]

My husband informed me today that he was not too keen on be traded for a horse :twisted:

[Minouri]

Wow, those are some purty horses!

I believe Scooter is a dun...but I'll leave it up to the experts on here :) I just think it because his paperwork says it.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/horses906060.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/scootbut.jpg
He does have the black tipped ears.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/secondtry2.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/horses906006.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/RuthieBetta/Alisha5.jpg

[Mellifluous]

I would say that scooter is bay.

He has countershading but not a true dorsal stripe. He is like my Phoebe, a wannabe dun. ;-)

[nellie99]

Ok folks, took this shot today. This palomino mare has darker legs, lighter non luminous body, not sure about the leg bars since if she does have them, they are almost too faint to see so I don't know if I am imagining they are there or not, but what about this tail to withers dorsal stripe? Dunalino, or just countershading? I've also included a side body shot but it doesn't show her darker legs that well as she looks now. Nellie
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/IMG_2202.jpg
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb107/nellie999/LSlookingatme4-26-07nice.jpg

[Pasogirlz]

I'm in love again. :love

[nellie99]

She's for sale............. :twisted:
(along with most of my lovies due to Roberts disability :( )
But not the stud I posted pictures of earlier- can't do that!

[Terry Wallace]

countershaded dorsal (primitive mark) on the palomino. Mine has one too..but no leg barring to qualify him as "dun"...no shoulder striping, no cobwebbed face...just a primitve type countershaded dorsal like yours.

[nellie99]

How interesting. I wonder what causes that countershading to appear? Won't it be great when the dun color test is finally figured out so the mystery like hers can be solved for 100% certain?
Do the dun markings show up on foals from birth- or do you have to wait until they shed to see them? Going back to that darker colt I posted photos of, I don't see any leg markings, but it does look like he has the stripe. His face already looks quite dark where the foal coat is coming off, is that what the "cobwebbing" is? A darker area? Or is it lines? Or both?? I don't know whether or not to register his as a brown, or a grullo.

[Terry Wallace]

Here is info on countershading & camoflauge...scroll down a ways for the equine info....
http://members.aol.com/stripedhos/striped-article/striped.htm